Why are we treated/paid as glorified babysitters or less?

Really? Gosh things def have moved on since i used a CM. About time too - I always thought it was very unreasonable that paying for childcare (which is after all essential to be able to work) was not tax deductible.

But you don't have to pay out of taxed income now inthegutter. You can use salary sacrifice schemes or vouches, which reduces your own tax burden.

It is a tricky subject. I am a SAHM, and I have seen both good and bad CMs around the bazaars. Some of the good ones I am in awe of and think they are worth their wight in gold, others I have seen, spend a lot of time smoking outside school waiting for their charges, or spending the morning in our local cafe with the kids int he high chair. But I am also amazed at the place where I live, where people will cough up £10 an hour for a cleaner, but begrudge the cm under half of that. It's a rum old world...

The OP asked for honest responses:
I don't think there's any excuse for late payment - that's just bad manners.
While CMs may seem underpaid, the fact is, they need to charge what is sustainable in the market place. A lot of parents, if charged £5 per hour per child would not afford to be able to go to work. Therefore they would give up. Therefore they would not need CMs. Therefore the CMs would be able to charge even less. It's simple market forces.
I can see where Nailpolish is coming from , even though some people find her views harsh. Many CMs (in fact all the ones I know) choose to do it precisely because it suits their circumstances at that particular time. They often have a young child of their own, they want to be able to stay at home - and let's face it, what other jobs can you do from home without having to pay for childcare??!!
Remember, those of us using CMs are paying out of taxed income.I know for a fact when I used a CM, what with my DC and her other mindees, she had more take home pay than I did, and I was in a job which required a degree and years of training.
IMO most CMs are fantastic and worth their weight in gold. But I also think most of them are pretty happy with the choice they've made and how theyre treated.

Maybe it was when calculating some benefits or something. I'm sure I was told only a third was counted as income for something. I'll shut up now as I'm obviously confused. Will have to check what it was.

No juuule, if we earn over the thresh holds then we pay tax and NI just like everybody else does.

Hi, to stick my oar in, I would say that as a SAHM I see lots of CM at pick up and drop off and (preparing herself to be shouted at)they have 4-5 children in tow I wouldn't pay the same as I pay a babysitter because the CM is splitting her time bewteen the children and they are not getting one to one care. Now if there was a CM in our village that had 1-2 children I would be prepared to pay more as I would feel that my child was getting more attention.
I don't think anyone in any job should be prepared to accept late payment or rude clients.
Also the other experience I have with a childminder is one of the girls at pickup at school who thinks it is great that she can get paid for watching telly. the kids (5 of them) run wild. and to quote "according to my course as long as I can hear them and they are ok that is all I have to do!" - she isn't a great advert and I am aware that there are some brilliant cm's

please dont tell me to "think again". thanks very much.

I'm not certain, but isn't tax and ni calculated on just one third of a childminder's income?

Don't forget chel86 the observations, assessments etc that we are expected to do by OFSTED AS WELL as feeding the children and doing school/nursery runs, there are just not enough hours in the day!

Up here in Greater Manchester the 'going rate' is £3.50 per hour so if, like me I only had one child up to3 weeks ago, I was earning very little. We have too many cms in our area to the numbers of people wanting cms.

I will be working from 6.45am till 4.30/5 starting Monday for £115 per week. Its a long day for £23 per day. Think again Nailpolish before you think we are on a good wage.

We cms are professional people even though some think we sit at home drinking coffee all day (dh!) I have just taken on a full-time baby as well as the 4 yr old and a 2 yr old (who is only with me for 8 weeks).

I pay NI contributions quarterly and I pay for my car fuel (rest is paid by dh) as well as: food for healthy snacks and non-sugar drinks.

I have to buy things like buggies, prams, travel cots and car seats out of this wage which are usually the costly items but alot of parents expect us to have them even when we are just starting out. Also OFSTED expects US to pay THEM for admin fees Cminding is NOT cheap! Oh and I nearly forgot - public liability insurance!

I too had a dreadful childminder. She regularly smoked despite denying it. When we gave notice, she deliberatly lost my dd's favourite toy (her daughter admitted this to me later) and one time smelt of alcohol when my dh picked dd up. She lied to us about her car being stolen when she had it repossessed. I know not all childminders are like this and some people I know have marvellous ones, but I have to say I won't use one again.

Can I just say (have not read any of the post ecept for few) that as a CM I'm treated by my parents with great respect, which is how I treat them. Nailpolish, I too used to be a trained nurse, I am so much better of now, not only financially but in many, many other ways.

I agree with you Rookie - and please don't think that all us CMs think of al parents that way because we don't! As with any job we do have gripes we need to get off our chest, but I do think it's a rare case with each CM that there is a difficult parent and I can honestly say I have had no problems! I had great respect for my CM when I was at work, and I have even greater respect for her now I am a CM and see what she did!!

Or maybe if you want a good old moan thread, to prefix it with CMs club, that way non CMs will know not to get involved.

kiddi, that is a really good point about not having a work network to air gripes with. I do make a big point of trying never to complain in front of my CM because I know that I earn more than her ( but have been thinking about this thread and if we have another DC the difference in incomes could be marginal)

I guess from someone who uses a CM my big fear is that my CM views me the way some of the CMs here seem to view all parents.Also a lot of posters here have great respect for CMs it was actually a thread I started a long time ago on going back to work that made me lose the deposit on the nursery we had planned to send DS to and ended up with our marvellous CM instead.

I have no objection at all to CMs airing individual issues, but rather than making sweeping generalisations about it I feel it would be more productive for people to air their specific issues about particular problems, that way those of us who feel that we do respect our CM can offer suggestions and encouragement rather than wondering if our CM feels the same, when all I am doing is paying her the wage she asked for, for a job that she chose to do.

I earnt £4700 last tax year - that is for a 50 hour week, 50 weeks of the year

My DD is 10, & I only started minding after she started school

I also pay NI (but rarely tax)

I prefer to accept SO/Bacs/vouchers but I will accept chqs - I only accept cash when the payment is late

I think paying late is disrespectful and mean - If I am not paid on time my mortgage company don't accept the excuse "I was busy/under stress/having some problems" they just fine me

I enjoy working with the children, I struggle (sometimes) working with the parents, I always struggle with OFSTED & paperwork, but I hope I offer the service the parents and children deserve - but sometimes I wonder

Blimey I'm amazed that you provide nappies. I wouldn't expect my cm to provide nappies, or formula

Most of us CMs don't grumble and have nothing to complain about. I certainly don't. I can honestly say I love my job. It can be difficult and stressful at times, but what job isn't? And most jobs, if not all, you will come across people who do not respect what you do. Some people are lucky enough to have very well paid jobs while most earn an average wage that pays the bills. Everyone can have a grumble about their job - I'm having difficulty at the moment because I've lost 3 sisters I minded as their mum lost her job - I'm now trying to survive on £85 a week. But I'm doing something about it and when I have another child on my books it will be much better.

We do a great job and get paid for it, like people in other employment do a great job and get paid for it. If you exceed you might get a bonus out of it. I wouldn't say we have it any worse than most but some do think we have it easy and we're earning loads. I think this thread was started because it's not an easy job (what job is?!) and because most of us don't earn £20k plus a year (again, very few jobs that do pay this).

i dont LOVE my job - its a job after all.

i work 7pm - 8am 3 days a week. i get home at 930am and i have to get up at 2pm to collect dds from school. so 3 days a week i get 4.5 hrs sleep, and i have to go to work on it.

but it pays the bills and its the only option i have at the moment so i jsut get on with it.

i just think cms have it better than they realise. put it into perspective.

I do think these threads appear more often than needs be at the moment. And I do agree that, like with any other job, if there is something we do not like about our job or if we don't like it full stop, we can do something to change it. And we do not have it worse than everyone else. But NP -

We do NOT all get an Xmas bonus

I RARELY finish work on time and often work 7:45am to 8pm

I am sure you get SOME respect in your job

And yes, I would love to be well paid too! Most of us would! Sounds like you don't enjoy your job too much...

i agree

cm do not have it worse than anyone else

id love a xmas bonus

id love to finish work on time

id love to get some respect from the people i am trying to help

id love to be well paid

thats life im afraid

Our DS goes to a CM and she is excellent and I respect her highly.

In return I pay her promptly, give her a christmas bonus and always pick DS up on time. I have a reasonable salary so yes I earn more than my CM,she looks after other children as well and I have worked out what she is likely to earn, and it's not a huge sum for the amount of responsibility she has.

I do get somewhat tired of these threads that appear. I don't think I could be a CM as it requires infinite patience and good humour, plus being assertive with parents when required.

However I know very few jobs that are perfect. I can think of some moans and groans about my own. However if I wasn't happy with it I would change what upset me, move to a different area, or leave.

CMs have just the same options and tbh I don't think they have it any worse or better than anyone else.

I'm a CM but also used to send my DS to a CM.

I agree that it can be expensive for a parent to go to work full time and send their child(ren) to a CM, but unless you earn a very comfortable wage, tax credits will help out towards this. I myself decided to become a CM after my DD was born because yes, the childcare fees would have been expensive, but then tax credits would have also gone up, but I wanted to stay at home with my chlidren.

I could afford to go back to work in an office full time with the help from tax credits towards child care, but I choose not to. However, some people don't have that choice and some openly admit that they couldn't stay at home with kids all day and they need to get out for the adult interaction and to keep their brains busy.

But I do agree that sometimes, as a CM, we simply do not get enough respect from some people. Most, including the parents of my mindees, are brilliant. Some more than others. One of my parents refused to take money off me for sick pay when I took a few days off following a MC, while the other called me the same evening it was confirmed demanding to know how long I would be off for and if I could drop the money I will owe to her that evening. I quite happily paid her, but the approach from her side lacked the respect I suppose.

And I, as a CM, do provide nappies, all meals, snacks and even include small outings in my hourly rate, and most my mindees are with me for breakfast as well, so yes, my outgoings can be quite high. I don't sit indoors all day with the kids, I make the effort to take them out everyday to do something, or if I can't, I get art and craft stuff in and arrange activities.

And Mollythetortoise, we do pay NI.

I agree that we do get paid per hour per child, but expenses are per child too. And personally, and I know there are a lot of us CMs out there, I do not like to fill my spaces completely because I like to give more attention and time to the chlidren I have and my own.

I think there are a lot of parents out there who do respect us and the WORK we do (not glorified housewives and some do think we are) but there are a select few who can take what we do for granted. I take pride in my work and my business which I set up on my own and I thrive on watching each child develop. IMO you don't get that with nurseries.