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Original poster

Seasoned Nanny employers or Nannys am I right to be miffed.................( bit long sorry )

112 replies

mummypoppins · 18/09/2007 09:21

Just got to work and a bit pissed off!

Our Nanny has been with us for 9 months now. She is 38 and has 20 years experience. She is orginally from England but moved to Australia when she was 3 months old so all her nannying experience is there.

She has come to England because she wants to study Homeopathy and was attracted to our job because we have 2 school age children so she has time off during the day to study.

She is paid £270 n pw ( we live in the country in the midlands ). She has her own annexe with Kitchen , shower room , Tv dvd , free broad band etc and a completely paid for 3 yr old Scenic entirely at her disposal . She does not contribute to this in anyway apart from her own diesel ( althought tbh I dont keep too much in terms of tabs on her and if she paid for her private diesel out of the kitty I would never know ). I am very naughty too as I dont declare that she has the car for private use so neither we nor her have to pay tax on it.She takes it to College ( 35 miles away ) at least 4 times a month as well as trips to London and other places at the weekend.

She has had everything that she has asked for in terms of resources..........new Kitchen stuff for her kitchen, brand new leather sofabed and pine table and chairs for her annexe and a £100 fancy screen that she wanted to make her space look nice ( DH would explode if he new ).

I lent her money ( £500 ) in the summer to pay for her college fees and pay her early if she is going away and asks ( twice in 9 months ). We took her to Centre Parcs for the weekend for free and she didnt lift a finger when we were there or pay even for a round of drinks and we didn't count it as 2 days holiday.

She went to Edinburgh for the week in May and we ferried her to and from the airport ( 240 miles ) for free.

I bought her Tiffany jewelrry for her birthday in August.

Her contracted hours at 7am to 11 and 3 to 7pm no babysitting at all except as overtime at £10 per hour with full time to cover the holidays . She is supposed to do all nursery duties, food shopping ( she has an unlimited budget for this and always buys the best as she loves expensive things...........I have never complained ). In actual fact she did a deal with my cleaner ( who does 12 hours a week ) and the Nanny now does washing and ironing and the cleaner does all the cleaning ( incl Kids stuff ).

She runs errands if I ask and feeds cats if we are away for the weekend. She does the dishwasher during the week and will put a meal in the slow cooker on a Friday for the whole family friday evening. Quite often she finishes early on a Friday as my DH doesnt work Friday pm and so he will do the school pick up and just leave her to finish off unpacking uniform and then she clocks off.

She will organise play dates but only if it suits her. In the holidays she spent an absolute fortune on going out and eating out with the children which again I never moaned about.

All in all I think ist a pretty easy job...........we live in a huge house with a lovely garden...........she has her own patio and garden furniture.............we have a swimming pool too.............if we go out for a meal en famille at the weekend or have a takeaway etc we always include her.

I have taken her shopping at the weekend never mind if she buys magazines to read for the house etc etc.

NOW TO THE CRUNCH!

This week my husband is away on business and I am particularly stretched at work so I asked her if she would cover some etxra hours. It will be 4 hours over 3 evenings........ie till 8pm 2 nights and until 9pm on Friday night. She has said no problem and confirmed that she wants to discuss how she is going to be paid for all this time she is doing.

I AM REALLY PISSED OFF. We have 2 big holiadys coming up. She is entitled to 20 days plus Bank holidays but will have 27 plus Bh unless I ask her to work when we are not around. I feel that we should be counting the axtra hours as hours in lieu.

What is every ones view. Am I being fair to her. Is it a reasonable job ?

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RahRahRachel · 18/09/2007 22:35

Mummypoppins, I do agree that you've been very fair and generous, but I think you need to be clear when you are giving free time/perks as gifts, and when it's in exchange for extra time or work later. My employers are also pretty generous with me, and have recently given me cash gifts/bonuses, but then felt I should have given up my one full day off last week to help out with a birthday party because I "owed" them extra as they gave me extra. I was a little annoyed to have been made to feel obliged, when I'd thought that the extra money was given to me as a gift to say thankyou, and now I it seems to have strings attached that weren't made clear. I really appreciate expectations being made CLEAR to me, so there's no room for misunderstandings that breed resentments. If you believe the extra hours should be in lieu, sit down with your nanny and tell her that.

NannyL · 18/09/2007 22:09

so true...

BUT does she leave early because she asks to or because her bosses dont need her for contracted hours?

If she is avaliable to work, but her bosses dont need her then thats not ehr fault either

(tbh if i do the odd hour here or there i dont worry about it, just because i dont... both my bosses are Drs so if they are late i understand that there are times they cant help it (my boss is a GP and we all know GPs can over run ), equally if i want to leave half an hour early for a good reason and they are around they dont make a big deal out if it either...)

yes it is give and take but if she is avaliable to work then she ought to be paid.

Equally i dont say, oh you are 20 mins late tonight, can i ahve 20mins over time... but if they said tomorrow can you do a couple of extra hours i would say fine and expect to be paid for it!

ingles2 · 18/09/2007 22:02

I'm slightly worried you're all going to think I'm mad for posting this but here goes....
Mummypoppins,..I have an au pair but I do all of this,...put myself and my family out, give much more than neccessary,..anything really to keep everyone in this home happy except myself of course. I guess I'm working on a "what goes around comes around" kind of philosophy and a fear that AP will leave, unsettle the DC etc etc but actually and I hate to say this NannyL is right. I would never behave like this at work so why do it at home? I think I've learnt something from this thread and that is just because I give (a lot!!) doesn't mean I'm going to get it back, that whatever I give, AP will probably always want more and that actually I'm just going to stick to the contract!

dramaqueen · 18/09/2007 21:38

But Nanny L she frequently leaves early as well. It looks as if she has become used to the benefits initially given as a kindness, and now takes them for granted. I would ask her how she wants to play it. Does she want to work her contracted hours and be paid overtime or work in a flexible way with give and tyake on BOTH sides?

frannikin · 18/09/2007 21:33

Yes you're right to be pissed off. And I would come and work for you, and wouldn't complain about the few extra hours. But then again I work for doctors so I'm used to getting a call saying "I'm going into emergency surgery, can you stay until I get home?". I know it's in her contract to be paid for overtime but when you've been so good to her, I can't believe she's even asking!

It just sounds like your nanny expects you to be flexible to fit around her needs and isn't being flexible herself.

I know people have said this already but for the job and the location, the pay and perks you're giving are really good. I work as a live-out nanny in the Midlands, as well as being a student, and during the vacation working full-time I wasn't taking home much more than your nanny is gettig as a weekly wage. Plus I have to account for all the money I spend and don't have use of a car.

In short, she needs to learn to give a little rather than taking all the time, and if she doesn't then get shot of her, because if she gets away with it once, she'll just keep pushing.

NannyL · 18/09/2007 21:25

mummypoppins... yes i think it would be completely reasonable for you to
NOT let her use your credit card
make her use holiday for a random not close relatives funeral

Ok she asked you for a lift and you said yes, thats up to you.

BTW there is no way i would ever even ask to be paid early / use bosses credit card

You are quite entitled to say no sorry i cant take you to the airport, but you chose to say yes.

BTW you sound like a lovely employer, and it does sound like a lovely job (It really does) but just because you are nice does not mean she should not expect to be paid overtime as stated in her contract!

Pickie · 18/09/2007 21:13

we used an agency called 'mums the word' and the lady, Emma, who runs it is fantastic! Very quick and seemed to know what our family needed. We also used 2 other agencies at the same time and they were crap. They are based in Oxford and a few of our friends also used them and all are full of praise...

lockets24 · 18/09/2007 20:50

as i nanny, i am very lucky i have very generous employers and when they ask the odd favour like they are this weekend i have no problem and would never dream of asking more money..she needs to be a bit more giving!

x

omega2 · 18/09/2007 20:48

Let me know if you are looking for a new nanny in the near future please as i live very near to worcester and need another job - they seem to be very very thin on the ground around this area

NappiesGalore · 18/09/2007 20:44

mummypoppins - sounds like an aupair we had - my first one. she really and truly got herself comfortable here (and i bent over backwards to make her welcome) and we worked together as a team with the young dc at the time (2 of them then) and we seemed to get along great and i even thought she was a friend...ha. before i knew it she was ruling the roost and taking th piss in so many ways... we were a means to an end for her, but the whole experience was really quite upsetting for me.

dont let her walk all over you. if she wants to get fussy over 2 extra hgours (2 hrs fgs!!) then you can quite happily retract the friday pms, and various other perks she is not entitled to, but lucky to receive.

the shame is, you will be less inclined to be so generous for fear of opening yourself up to abuse next time.

Original poster
mummypoppins · 18/09/2007 19:29

oooops firmly in my place nannyl.......so the next time she asks to borrow my credit card to order stuff over the net because she cant get one yet.............or for a lift to the airport to go on holiady to save her the £100 taxi fare.............or to be paid early because she has run out of money...........or for her Mum to come over and stay from Australia in our house......or time off for great uncle so and so's funeral ( that would be holiday in my office ) presumably you think it is reasonable for me to say no ?

OP posts:
NannyL · 18/09/2007 19:16

actually i dont see it as a problem for her to be paid overtime when you are asking her to do overtime hours.

Yes she has a nice job! but at the end of the day it seems she IS doing her job...

maybe have a word with her about play dates etc, but as far as i can read thats your only problem isnt it?

Feel free to give her a budget for the holidays and supermarket if you really want to, but dont think that becuase she took your children out for dinner during the holidays while working and doing her job, that it means you should expecther to work for free!

I dont see how going to centre parks with you was or could ahve been counted as her holiday tbh (she was NOT on holiday)... unless you said oh we are going to centre parcs and she said Really? i really want to go, can you book an even bigger villa and let me come too please

mogs0 · 18/09/2007 19:15

I'd love to be your nanny please!!! Is there room for 5 yr old ds too?!!!

I think you're a very generous employer!!

Re holiday allowance, a family that I worked for often took a min of 6 weeks hol per year. As it was their choice to take the time off I would have been a bit miffed if they hadn't paid me. However, I nearly always looked after the children for a weekend for them after their hols for them to sort themselves out. It's all about give and take but seems very one sided in your case.

Hope you get it sorted and, if not, please can ds and I come and work for you?!!!!

NAB3 · 18/09/2007 19:03

Nannies are exempt from the 48 hour rule....

Original poster
mummypoppins · 18/09/2007 18:58

squiffy I am amazed.............I kinda got the impression from her that she had taken a reduced salary for her age and experience because she wanted a load of time off during the day.

Its interesting because I was talking with a friend a few weeks back who is in Wandsworth and pays her live in nanny the same as mine and she looks after a 3 yr old full time and whats more this friend ( and appparently half of London too ) only declares half of this to HMRC to save money!

I reckon in term time my nanny works about an 9 hour day and in holidays its 11 hours.( 8 to 7 ) so that is an average 47 hour week..............not excessive for a live in nanny .

OP posts:
eleusis · 18/09/2007 18:14

Squiffy.... She doing what?!?!?! OH no! Tell us more (if you can). And if you can't cat me.

yogimum · 18/09/2007 18:04

I had a position with lots of perks but any extra hours I did I wasn't paid for. Its a two way street and frankly I think she is taking advantage of your generosity.

Squiffy · 18/09/2007 17:58

....Oh and if you want to know how I have all this stuff to hand, it is because this dearest beloved departed nanny has seen fit to try to blackmail me into giving her a pay-off to stop her reporting me to HMRC for ignoring EU 48 hour per week maximum hours regulations.... she really was a work of art, that one.

Squiffy · 18/09/2007 17:53

MP - I now have a live-out nanny and pay her £7 an hour net which is the average here (I am in deepest Kent), but low compared to London salaries I think. The auusie was a live-in and we paid her the same as you are paying. Plus car and flights home (£700) and own annexe and so on. The salary you are paying is spot in if you look here, and the average hours for live in are anywhere between 50-60 hours according to most websites: this is what nanny-nanny.co.uk says "A standard workday for a full-time, live-out nanny is about 10 hours, but it is not unheard of to have your nanny work 11. The standard workweek for this type of nanny is 50 hours. All live-out nannies are usually paid an hourly rate, and any evening babysitting your nanny does is paid in addition. Live-in nannies, on the other hand, can expect to work longer hours as they are granted the convenience of not having to commute. A full workweek for a live-in nanny is 60 hours, plus 1-2 nights of babysitting, which are included in her salary (not paid additionally)"

Original poster
mummypoppins · 18/09/2007 17:44

Worcester

OP posts:
omega2 · 18/09/2007 17:43

sounds like a great job and would love to work for you - wondering where abouts in the midlands you are?

NAB3 · 18/09/2007 17:01

I think you spoil her.

I think she should be paid overtime but £10/hour is too much

She should be organising play dates to suit the children, not her. It is her job!

eleusis · 18/09/2007 16:46

I know a fab nanny who needs a job and would love to return to the UK. She would be over the moon with what you offer. But, she's Canadian and her working holiday visa has expried. So you'd need to know another avenue to get her into the country to work legally. She is my old nanny. She went to a job in Turkey and they were mean old bats. So she resigned and she'll be staying with me next week as she passes back through the UK for one last time. sniff sniff

There might not be any such visa that could get her in the country... but if there was I'm sure she'd be thrilled to come back.

Original poster
mummypoppins · 18/09/2007 15:49

thanks all...........squiffy embarrasingly I am a solicitor so know all about the employment bits.

Just out of interest how much do you pay your nanny and do you expect babysitting as well ?

Also she is due a pay rise at Christmas..........How much would be usual ?

I am worried about losing her because it is difficult to recruit in the country so i wonder whether she is likely to jump. She once told me that at her age she doesnt do being told what to do because she is way too experienced and she has been there and done that.

I am sure there are days when she works from 7am until beyond 11am because by the time she is back form the school run its 9.15 and then she has a few things to do but on the otherhand she goes to Yoga for an hour and a half at 9.30am on a wedsnesday am and it is her choice to do the shopping. We always managed with online shopping before its just that she told me she likes to shop and cook fresh everyday.

I guess I haven't managed it very well. We always had Au pairs before and treated them as well ( apart form the pay ). In most cases they were happy to help out as they saw that we were generous in so many ways and I guess I thought she would too.

I will sit down and calculate what holiday she has left for the rest of the year and sort with her that way. I will also ask her if she wanst to take as holiday the Monday at the beginning of September when we were at Centre Parcs and I got home to a note fro the cleaner to say that she had done all the washing and ironing so that the nanny had plenty of time to get the children read for school the next day. Clearly the nanny hadnt been in our house to do any work at all!!

I dont pay my cleaner to do what my Nanny is alraedy paid to do. Thats why I am miffed!!

I will be inetersted tonight to see what some of the nanny's on here think!

OP posts:
Squiffy · 18/09/2007 14:10

Mummypoppins you are living my life all over again. Almost the same thing happened to me - my DH and I were so caught up in not wanting the kids to be affected by another change in childcare arrangements that we allowed a nanny to more or less walk all over us. It got to the point that I was putting the children into nursery so the nanny could have more spare time and she was then offering out her services to other families during these extra mornings off..... and there was lots of other stuff I won't go into. This nanny was an aussie too, and similar in age to yours. We also live in the country so know it isn't easy to find replacements though.

I would just swallow pride and replace now. don't just hope it will get better because it won't it will just get worse. Far better to do it quickly and to not go over the 12mth threshold in terms of length of employment. I would call a solicitor and discuss.

All the time I was going through this I was very stressed - I knew she was taking the p but hated the idea of (a) finding someone else and (b) having the kids go through another change. In truth when it all came to a head it was such a relief and it is only in hindsight I realise how I should have tackled it so much earlier. Our new nanny is so easy-going and chilled that she makes me feel guilty for not doing it sooner - and the children are happier as well. This friday we are off to a wedding overnight and the nanny is doing from end of shift Friday right through till Saturday lunchtime quite happily and hasn't even asked me if I will be paying her overtime for it (I will, but am frankly amazed that she just said 'no probs' when I asked her to do it, instead of making it some kind of huge deal - which is what aussie nanny would have done)..

I'll not go on and on about what happened to me but you can cat me if you want to know all the gory details and why I suggest you don't go over the 12 mth threshold..