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Original poster

Seasoned Nanny employers or Nannys am I right to be miffed.................( bit long sorry )

112 replies

mummypoppins · 18/09/2007 09:21

Just got to work and a bit pissed off!

Our Nanny has been with us for 9 months now. She is 38 and has 20 years experience. She is orginally from England but moved to Australia when she was 3 months old so all her nannying experience is there.

She has come to England because she wants to study Homeopathy and was attracted to our job because we have 2 school age children so she has time off during the day to study.

She is paid £270 n pw ( we live in the country in the midlands ). She has her own annexe with Kitchen , shower room , Tv dvd , free broad band etc and a completely paid for 3 yr old Scenic entirely at her disposal . She does not contribute to this in anyway apart from her own diesel ( althought tbh I dont keep too much in terms of tabs on her and if she paid for her private diesel out of the kitty I would never know ). I am very naughty too as I dont declare that she has the car for private use so neither we nor her have to pay tax on it.She takes it to College ( 35 miles away ) at least 4 times a month as well as trips to London and other places at the weekend.

She has had everything that she has asked for in terms of resources..........new Kitchen stuff for her kitchen, brand new leather sofabed and pine table and chairs for her annexe and a £100 fancy screen that she wanted to make her space look nice ( DH would explode if he new ).

I lent her money ( £500 ) in the summer to pay for her college fees and pay her early if she is going away and asks ( twice in 9 months ). We took her to Centre Parcs for the weekend for free and she didnt lift a finger when we were there or pay even for a round of drinks and we didn't count it as 2 days holiday.

She went to Edinburgh for the week in May and we ferried her to and from the airport ( 240 miles ) for free.

I bought her Tiffany jewelrry for her birthday in August.

Her contracted hours at 7am to 11 and 3 to 7pm no babysitting at all except as overtime at £10 per hour with full time to cover the holidays . She is supposed to do all nursery duties, food shopping ( she has an unlimited budget for this and always buys the best as she loves expensive things...........I have never complained ). In actual fact she did a deal with my cleaner ( who does 12 hours a week ) and the Nanny now does washing and ironing and the cleaner does all the cleaning ( incl Kids stuff ).

She runs errands if I ask and feeds cats if we are away for the weekend. She does the dishwasher during the week and will put a meal in the slow cooker on a Friday for the whole family friday evening. Quite often she finishes early on a Friday as my DH doesnt work Friday pm and so he will do the school pick up and just leave her to finish off unpacking uniform and then she clocks off.

She will organise play dates but only if it suits her. In the holidays she spent an absolute fortune on going out and eating out with the children which again I never moaned about.

All in all I think ist a pretty easy job...........we live in a huge house with a lovely garden...........she has her own patio and garden furniture.............we have a swimming pool too.............if we go out for a meal en famille at the weekend or have a takeaway etc we always include her.

I have taken her shopping at the weekend never mind if she buys magazines to read for the house etc etc.

NOW TO THE CRUNCH!

This week my husband is away on business and I am particularly stretched at work so I asked her if she would cover some etxra hours. It will be 4 hours over 3 evenings........ie till 8pm 2 nights and until 9pm on Friday night. She has said no problem and confirmed that she wants to discuss how she is going to be paid for all this time she is doing.

I AM REALLY PISSED OFF. We have 2 big holiadys coming up. She is entitled to 20 days plus Bank holidays but will have 27 plus Bh unless I ask her to work when we are not around. I feel that we should be counting the axtra hours as hours in lieu.

What is every ones view. Am I being fair to her. Is it a reasonable job ?

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bossykate · 19/09/2007 11:55

aaww, now don't cry! chin up! look up at the ceiling - it will stop the tears. don't worry you will work something out. good luck with the chat.

bossykate · 19/09/2007 11:55

aaww, now don't cry! chin up! look up at the ceiling - it will stop the tears. don't worry you will work something out. good luck with the chat.

Original poster
mummypoppins · 19/09/2007 11:50

Right so it is acceptable to expect them to work when you are away then because as I said before I think she is just expecting it as a bonus.

As far as the letter is concerned then she had alraedy said she would be going to America when we are away at the end of October although I think she has changed her mind now so it is accepted between us that she will be taking tha week off and that she will be away with relatives for Christmas so perhaps re read with that in mind its really only the week leading up to Christmas that is the issue.

I just new that if I didnt link the 2 issues together then I would be paying her huge amounts of overtime now and it might come as areal shock to her at Christmas to be presented with a list of tasks to do when we are away. Better to be clear on these things.

Thanks for all your support I am feeling very fragile this am...........TOTM.just keep fighting back the tears at my desk. None of my bloody male colleagues at work have to deal with these things.

OP posts:
Neverenough · 19/09/2007 11:43

When we are away but it is not our nanny's holidays she comes in and does a tidy up, checks the post, turns lights on/off etc, sort through old children's clothes, cleans(I have her cleaning now since DD3 is at school full time)
She still gets more time off than is in her contract though.

Neverenough · 19/09/2007 11:41

But these days, how do you get rid of her legally if you then employ another nanny???

I think the letter may not be perfect Mummypoppins but it's a start-best resolution for you would be that she resigns-although she may well stick like glue given the good deal you give her!

I think your let out would be to tell her that you no longer need all the hours -I think it is generally acepted that nanny hours change as the children grow. So you could offer her a new contract with fewer hours and fairer conditions(for you) and then see if she bites or runs.

I'm glad that you are taking a stand though!

Oh and our nanny gets 2 weeks off when it suits us and she can ask for 2 when she wants if we can accommodate it we do but there is no compulsion to do so.

Original poster
mummypoppins · 19/09/2007 11:37

Thanks you have all been very supportive and yes Eleusis we should scale back on expenses.

I will talk with her when I get back tonight and see what her reaction is. DH suggested we go back to online shopping which I agree with.

NannyL made a good point that I should not see paying for her to take the children out to eat as a perk for her. BUT it is easier to eat out as we all know and a job working for anyone who is penny pinching is wearing and I just feel that we should get some credit for that.

I have allowed her a free reign because I wanted her to settle in. In the early days she would do 30 mile round trip to a different supermarket because she liked better than the one on the way home form school and I never complained about the diesel. I do not stand over her at all and dictate which surely must make for a more pleasant working environment for her ?

Just out of interest Eleusis what does your nanny do when you are away but she is not taking it as hols ? Do you just let her go ?

OP posts:
Piggy · 19/09/2007 11:25

It does sound like your nanny is taking advantage mummypoppins. Unless she drastcially changes her behaviour as a result of your note/a chat than I would seriously think about getting a new nanny. You can't have someone working for you when she's taking you for a ride.

eleusis · 19/09/2007 11:15

I think you are right in pronciple, mummyp. I just think the situation can so easy be made worse with the written word.

But, I do absolutely sympathise and understand your trouble of having to d all the nanny managing when your DH is away. My DH is also away all week (well, Mon-Thursday) every week and I have the pleasure managing all things child and nanny related, and that includes the school. He has yet to show an interest in a parent-teacher consultation.

Do you realise you don't actually have to give 20 days hols plus bank hols? Although I believe the law is changing soon.

You could definitely scale back on the expenses. I think you are losing a lot of money there. And I wouldn't pay a live-in nanny £10 for babysitting. No way.

bossykate · 19/09/2007 10:15

think you need to get rid and start again. sorry. a more detailed contract (and you a lawyer! ) next time and far, far fewer perks. good luck it's awful when childcare arrangements are problematic, i sympathise.

Original poster
mummypoppins · 19/09/2007 10:06

F an z. So far she has chosen all her holiday so I am not being unreasonable.One week suited us fine as we were off anyway but the other didn't..........bang in the middle of the school holidays and I had a nightmare trying to get childcare organised.

Our contract says that we are entitled to chose 2 weeks of her holiday to suit us.

Eleusis I take your point. BUT I am never home by 6pm and am so stressed at work at the moment I am finding it hard to cope with all of this. DH is away again and its always down to me yet I work much harder than him and earn more money than him. he is an Ostrich and wont deal with anything like this it is always down to me to sort.

Nanny has acted in the past as though if we are away it's just extra time off for her and I really cannot afford to pay her such a huge amount and overtime together with up 7 weeks holiday a year. Surely it is give and take and quite frankly if not then I shall put this down to experience and start again.

She might be pissed off at the letter because she knows now that if she had kept quiet about more pay I would probably have let the holidays slip. You can't have it both ways. She wants to stick straight to the contract then so will I.

OP posts:
eleusis · 19/09/2007 08:25

Twiglett, an employer can (and often does) dictate when the holiday is. Many nanny employers allow the nanny to choose half of the the holiday but they are not legally required to do this.

Mummypoppins,
Oh dear. I'm afraid I don't think that letter was the best approach. If I were the nanny and had said hey I want to talk about the overtime for these days and I got the that letter in response I'd be thinking where the F did that come from? I'd show it to a few friends for their opinions (just as you have to shown it to us here for ours) and I'd ask them if they think you are overreacting just a tad.

I would have left a note that said something like:

"Nanny,
I would like to sit down and discuss our arrangements regarding your hours, overtime payment, time in lieu, etc. I'll come home early to do this on Friday so can you please arrange to have the day wrapped up by 6:00 and that will give us an hour for our chat."

If I were you and wanted to get the costs down I would tighten the reins on the expenses and miscellaneous perks you are giving her. I give my nanny £70/month for miscellaneous expenses (toddler groups, etc.) She has a mobile phone and a bus pass that will take her anywhere in greater London. I do the grocery shopping. You must spend £hundreds more than I do on entertainment and groceries alone. I expect my nanny to cook herself. I do have some convenience food in the freezer (pizza, fish pies, etc.) But, on the whole I expect nanny to whip up dinner on her own. I don't think I ever pay for them to eat out (unless it comes out of her £70 for the month but she certainly couldn't afford to do that often)

FrannyandZooey · 19/09/2007 08:07

Are all the days you have given her off days that she has asked for, or are they just days when you decided you didn't need her? What agreement do you have about who chooses her days holiday? Because I think she should have a good proportion of days that she has chosen, and a chance to have a whole week off of her choice, not just days here and there that you have decided she doesn't need to be on call.

Twiglett · 19/09/2007 07:35

Is it too late to comment on the letter

its good but I would say that

"That totals 12.5 so far. We are away for a week in October ( 22nd to 26th ) so if you take the whole week off that makes 17.5 and 2.5 left to use.

At Christmas we are away for 8 working days . I presume you will take the 2.5 days in between Christmas and New Year which is 3 working days?..27th / 28th and 31st December. ? Ill give you half a day on New Years Eve !"

is unfair

if you decide to go away that does not mean that she should have to take that as holiday does it? She is available to work, it is you have decided to remove the work .. not her fault .. I'd just be careful how you phrase this (unless this is already specified in her contract of course in which case ignore me)

MrsWobble · 19/09/2007 07:34

good note. I suspect you ought to start looking for a new nanny though - once things get to this sort of a state it's hard to rebuild a relationship where neither side feels taken advantage of.

Original poster
mummypoppins · 19/09/2007 07:09

So MNet Jury this is the note I have keft the Nanny..........Am I being reasonable ? Best to record in writing I feel.As you can see I am really struggling with all of this but I am determined not to be undermined or taken advantage of in my home bloody home !!

Let me know what you all think and I will post later with the Nanny's response

Dear Nanny

Sorry for typing this but there wont be enough space in the diary !

Re the extra hours. DH and I were both under the impression that your hours of work included 2 nights a week babysitting which ( Agency )had told us was standard for all live in Nannies and therefore we had assumed that because we rarely asked we were well inside our quota etc..Having looked at your contract (my fault I made the mistake when I drafted it ! ) I can see that this is not the case so I am sorry if you felt awkward over the overtime.

Having said all of that because we require a degree of flexibility with DH's anti social hours and my long hours ( he is likley off to ?? next week ) we need to find a way to get the help we need without bankrupting ourselves in the meantime .

Mum has agreed to help out whenever possible if I can?t be back for 7pm and so she will come over this Friday night to relieve you at 7pm. I will pick DD up from Brownies tonight and will see you at about 7.45pm and tomorrow I will be home by 7.30pm.

Can you therefore just keep a note of the extra hours you do in any month and we will either pay you or agree time off in lieu for instance when we are in ?? at the end of the year and your holiday entitlement has run out ( see later ) .

I know you have already done some weektime babysitting this year ( parents evenings etc ) which is by and large recorded in the diary. If you want to add up all the hours then please do so and we can add them to the total.
I know that on occasions you have fed the cats for us at the weekend but hopefully you feel that is covered by Fridays when you have been able to go early because we have been away on hols by lunchtime??e g Friday 10th Aug and Friday 1st Sept and other odd Fridays when DH has been about and not busy with other things !

In addition we need to make sure you have had all your holiday this year. You are entitled to 20 days and my records show that so far you have had :

Tues 10thApril 1
Friday May 25th alf
Tuesday 29th to
Friday 1st June 4
Mon 20th Aug to
Tues 28th Aug 6
Mon 3rd Sept 1 ( not sure about this one. I had thought you were working but cleaner left me a note to say she had done all the washing and ironing because you were away ? Can you clarify for me ? )

That totals 12.5 so far. We are away for a week in October ( 22nd to 26th ) so if you take the whole week off that makes 17.5 and 2.5 left to use.

At Christmas we are away for 8 working days . I presume you will take the 2.5 days in between Christmas and New Year which is 3 working days?..27th / 28th and 31st December. ? Ill give you half a day on New Years Eve !

So the week before Christmas 17th to 21st and 24th ( 6 days ) needs to be sorted between us.. Either you can accrue some overtime to cover some or all of the days or you can still work and I will find some other jobs to fill the time??..clearing out cupboards , children toys , running errands , baking for the freezer etc

Can you let me know what you would prefer to do ?

See you later

OP posts:
Hansmummy · 19/09/2007 00:29

Ooooooooh can I come and work for you instead? I'll only ask for half what she gets, he he!
Just think of it this way-an average 9-5 office job pays £160 with NO perks, so rent, car, food, bills etc comes out of that-she is so comfortable at your house that I think I may be changing profession! Do not worry, you are being more, more MORE than fair to her, and I think she is being more than a little bit cheeky!

Original poster
mummypoppins · 19/09/2007 00:25

omega2 .....email me at hollygreenfarmhouse at bt internet dot com with your details........

OP posts:
Original poster
mummypoppins · 19/09/2007 00:21

Thanks all of you....its late and I am not thinking straight really. I agree that I have given freely because I am that sort of person and most employees are not. I have learnt my lesson.

We did make it clear frm the start that we needed flexibilty and that we were not the sort of people that counted every penny in and out and she was very happy with that at the interview in return for tha fact that she was being paid full time money for what amounted to a less than full time job so that she could study at the same time.

Lets face it..........hands up on here how many Nannies get paid the same amount for what she is doing ??

But I know that give most people an inch and they will take a mile and I need to recover the ground somewhat.

Thanks for all your support. At 12.20am and I need to be up at 6am once again Mums are doing it all !!!

OP posts:
Neverenough · 18/09/2007 23:25

She is taking advantage of you-but you are allowing her to do it!
She is entitled to expect to be paid for overtime.
It is a working arrangement and you can't expect her to be flexible unless you have said so upfront that you want to "bank" hours .

I am lucky as have a very lovely flexible Nanny but I made it clear from day 1 that that was what I expected because of our jobs.

She must like us as still here after 7 years!

A friend worked completely differently and always baked hours and saved them up-her nanny could say no but knew she would have to work the extra hours sometime. Our arrangement is more flexible.But nanny wins as I pay her for more hours than I need by a long shot!

If you can't renegotiate her contract I'm sure you would find someone else , you sound like a lovely employer but remember for her it is a job, no matter how fond she is of the children!

Nightynight · 18/09/2007 23:05

I am upfront about whether I want to pay or offer time in lieu before I ask our au pair for evening babysitting.

Must admit, I would not be happy with a nanny who said she didnt like being told waht to do. It is not a cooperative, you are the boss.
I dont like being told what to do either - but I recently implemented a load of crap (imo) why? Because the customer wanted it and I was being paid!

MaxandRuby · 18/09/2007 23:03

you sound like a lovely employer but agree with NannyL.

NKF · 18/09/2007 22:55

I'd pay her overtime but not buy her presents from If you want to give her extras then that's your choice. It's nothing to do with her salary.

gess · 18/09/2007 22:51

agree with nannyl.

FrannyandZooey · 18/09/2007 22:42

"BTW you sound like a lovely employer, and it does sound like a lovely job (It really does) but just because you are nice does not mean she should not expect to be paid overtime as stated in her contract! "

Agree NannyL

it is lovely that you give her all these perks and time off but that IS your choice and doesn't mean that you can ask her to do overtime for free in return unless you have negotiated this.

If you want to give her extra days off and let her clock off early and so on in return for extra hours, you need to say so and get her agreement. She's quite right to stick to the contract IMO - you are obviously very generous employers, but extras are just that - "extras" - not a replacement for the terms agreed in her contract.

crumpet · 18/09/2007 22:35

Has anyone else picked up on the "I don't do being told what to do" statement? Can you imagine saying that to your boss in an office??