Seasoned Nanny employers or Nannys am I right to be miffed.................( bit long sorry )

We needed the flexibility of a nanny(ours is daily) as we are both doctors-but I can say that the more senior you are, the buck stops with you! My nanny understands that I work through minor illness such as a cold etc, and I expect her to do so as well! Especially now they are in school.

Also, both DH and I have to take it in turns to work Xmas so when we do , she does as well(I mean normal working days not BH of course).

I'm staggered that your nanny had to take a dy off in the summer hols because she was tired MP!

just replying to the holiday point - I just try and be as reasonable as possible / plan as far in advance as possible (pretty much the same approach as you have to apply to your workmates in a legal team really) - so far this year I've picked a couple of weeks, but checked that our nanny is OK with them before booking - and DH and I have each taken a couple of days leave to cover mondays or fridays when she has wanted to take a long weekend - we've just got back from a week's holiday and I've asked her to have a think about how much time she'd like to take over Xmas so that I can plan ahead / we can work out what to do. Frankly, given no school holidays at this point it doesn't make too much difference to me when we take holidays as long as there's advance notice and we don't take more than about 10 days in a block....

in terms of flexible working / last minute crises, I don't really have an answer for you but can sympathise about the concern you have about keeping the nanny happy - before I moved in house I found it very difficult to keep ringing / explaining that I was going to be half an hour late all the time (we have a daily nanny), and very conscious about trying to compensate by getting home early on other days etc- much easier now that I'm in house - I expect that you're much more dependent as a partner (although, as I keep telling DH, one of the perks of partnership is supposed to be dumping everything on the senior associates and leaving the building - at least that's how it worked when we were senior associates!). lisalisa - completely agree with you re: working through lunchhour, and I think you should stick to your guns aside from the odd occasion when other people schedule meetings, unavoidably, at 9. Frankly, in magic circle firms large numbers of people wander in at about 9.30 (partly late nights, partly the perils of the london transport system) so I'm surprised it's an issue.

Exactly lisalisa-help, there are a lot of lawyers on this thread and I'm not-however, as well as employing nannies for yonks I also employ 55 people at work so feel I know a little about it!

It's all down to the contract-as I see it, you can be as generous as you like as long as you observe your employee's rights. And then she in turn must respect your agreement.

So-mistake number 1 MP is not writing down the expectation to babysit in the week.
Mistake number 2 was agreeing £10 an hour babysitting-I am not in London but who pays that much????

You could get a local reliable teenager for half that and without the aggro-and your children would enjoy that too!

Of course, overnights are different but don't forget that she is there anyway as she lives in and it's relative down time so I would negotiate a rate that is fair and reflects that(can't remember exactly what you said so glossing over a bit)

Squiffy-yes I am sure changing nannies tit-for-tat would be a nightmare but having spoken to nanny agencies, nannies are regarded as a special case as the "job" tends to outgrow them. So it may well be possible but I would certainly consult a lawyer if I did do that!
MP ,is your nanny on a year's contract or open-ended? If the former, one option would be to just give her notice that you will not be renewing the contract, I would have thought you could then look for a new nanny with tighter T and C.
The thing is, it's an emotional response a swell isn't it-I love my nanny because she loves my kids, is flexible, and a lovely gitl as well but sometimes I feel as if I have a 4th daughter and fret about her wellbeing!

In fact-confession time-I haven't worked f/t for 6 years and have dropped my days from 3 to 2 6 montsh ago buts still employ her f/t over 4 days as I don't want to lose her-I still need nanny hours for the days I work and we like to have some time away just us 2(me and DH not me and the nanny!!!) and seh steps in admirably.
In fact, at the moment, as I don't work Fridays usually I pay her for the day and she goes and cleans the next door barn holiday let and pops in to give the kids tea!
I know, there's one born every minute.....

Anyway MP, chin up and put aside your fears about what might happen-as you have seen from respnses you will have no trouble finding a new nanny if push comes to shove and your kids will sail through it!

I've spent so long typing this that the whole thread has probably moved on!

goodness you sound so like me 2 yrs ago, we were taken for a ride by a nany I bent over backwards to keep happy. In the end i realised it was up to me to manage her as her employer not her new best friend, needless to say we parted company, i have changed working patterns and dd2 now at nursery...but i still remember how stressed i felt, when you fork out a lot of money for stress free child care !

Message withdrawn

Mp...I just LOVE that....can you imagine us saying to our boss that we need time off cos we've had enough. I think it's time for you to say enough and start looking for another nanny...sorry

nothing useful to add but sympathy and a perspective for the future-

I'm finding for myself at least that it's best to not do "kindnesses" and "favours" for people who work for you, which in your heart you are totting up. You will benefit only if you don't expect anything in return. It's easy to feel generous on a good day, then 2 months later filled with resentment about that box of chocolates you gave them, because they have since let you down/asked for even more money/quit.

I've been lurking on here without anything useful to add - apart from some empathy - but am intrigued about all the talk of whether the nanny has to work while you are away.

Our nanny gets 20 days a year (on top of bank holidays), and I get 25 days (was reduced when I went in house ) - but since DH and I both work full time I tend to find that my "extra" five days get used up quite easily on admin things (down time on a change of nanny this year, could equally be half a day to deal with decorators etc here and there). Plus, DH struggles to actually take his quota of holidays. what am I doing wrong (or are all of you self employed / longtimers in private practice etc etc)?

There is a bit of food control freakery goin gone in my case. I am the nutrition police for the kids. Someone has to be and no one else in my house cares. So, I police what comes in and figure if that's all there is to cook with, then they'll have to eat it.

But... I have a control freaky psycho mum moment from last week that might cheer you up. I was at JL with DD looking at tennis racquets. She wandered over to the table football and was playing with a another 4 year old. I went over and found her, 4 year old boy, and his mum. So the four of us had a go. But, I was controlling the goal and the defenders for her side. She got mad because she wanted to do it and do you want to know what I said to me 4 year old "Do you want to play or do you want to *win"?!" She's 4! And I have no doubt scarred her for life. I immediately though OMG did I just say that. I am a complete pushy competitive mum control freak.

There, now do you feel better knowing what an arse I am?

Oh, and don't feel guilty about asking her to do her job when you are not there. I assume you go to work and do your job when your boss goes on holiday. Besides, if something in her jobdescription needs doing it is because she has not done it in her day to day work. So, had she done all of her work, then there would be nothing to do and she could have the day off.

She does not have a right to the same perks that you have earned for yourself in your life. She has a right to the perks that are granted to her in her contract and in UK law.

And don't cry. I too have been where you are. It's miserable. And I do have lots of sympathy for you.

Mummyp,

Groceries - We have a list on the bulletin board in the kitchen. If nanny wants something she writes it down and I buy it in the weekly shop. I will buy most any resonably price staple which is nutritious and SOME treats and convenience foods. I buy things like brown rice, pasta, tinned tomatoes, sauce packets, frozen and fresh veg, potatoes, bread, eggs, chicken breasts, minced beef, sandwich meat, cheese, milk, juice (real juice not crappy sugar water with nutrasweet), etc. Things like weight watchers desserts and kiddie yogurts, and other fun convenient tasty but not nutritious things I buy in moderation. I expect my grocery bill for the whole family including the nanny to come in under £150 per week. If you don't write what you want on the list, then I can't possibly know to buy it and you have no right to complain about it!! BTW, noone ever writes diddly squat on the list. So I choose what to buy.

Expenses - I would cap it. Say £100 per month. If she wants to go out to eat with the kids it can come from here. Ask for receipts for any expense over £5.

Car- Ask her to keep a travel log which shows the milage of each trip and where they went. This could help you understand if they are driving more than they need to. Tell her you have decided to do your part in saving the environment and the first step is to not take unnecessary car trips.

Holidays - If I was going away and there was work to be done, I would ask her to do it. If it is just one day off, I might say these clothes over here need sorting and the toys here are a mess. If you can straighten them up by noon you can have the rest of the day off. (and give her tasks that reasonably could be done in half a day).

mummypoppins - cat me if you need to offload stuff and have a sympathetic conversation off-line. Having gone through all of this so recently I know how stressful it all is - I have a very pressurised job in the city which I can breeze through, but because the nanny situation was so close to home (so to speak) and involved my kids I got far more wobbly about things than I ever thought possible...

Neverenough - it is a legal minefield and if anyone ever does think of changing nannies I recommend they speak to a lawyer - fortunately our nightmare nanny resigned before she was pushed but when I looked into it it was really difficult if they have been there for more than 12 months. the best way is either to restructure role (eg let's say for example you had a nanny that did 38 hours of childcare each week and then did cleaning and some of your meals on top, you could theoretically restructure it into two separate roles that needed to be done simultaeneously, thus reducing hours to just 38 and therefore resulting in a redundancy situation). If you really really need to have someone do exactly the same role and they have been there 12 months then you need to go through a formal discipline process to demonstrate nanny is not doing job satisfactorily (though I suspect this would be hell in practice), or your best bet is probably to sit down with nanny, explain that the fit isn't right and suggest you both start looking for something else, support her in her job hunt and agree on suitable references and so on. You would probably have to pay a lump sum as well. It is all so yucky, especially when they are living in your house at the same time.

oops

aaww, now don't cry! chin up! look up at the ceiling - it will stop the tears. don't worry you will work something out. good luck with the chat.