Furloughing nanny

Thanks- any confirmation on employers income tax liability as yet?

Finally, HMRC have confirmed that all employees being paid via PAYE are covered by the CJRS (furlough) scheme.

Please find articles covering this topic here: www.accountingweb.co.uk/tax/hmrc-policy/coronavirus-job-retention-scheme-get-the-details-right

and here:

www.ft.com/content/e8413fcc-d548-4a4c-835a-88039563be3e
"Nannies are covered as long as they paid through PAYE, and this should apply to all employers, rather than businesses, with a nanny on payroll. "

@adagio your nanny can’t have your children at her home. She won’t be covered legally as she is not a cm and means she can only have children at her home for 2hrs a day

As nannies can’t work from their own home they can still work - ofsted and MORTON Michele has verifies that the nannys insurance Would be valid if goes to work

If the employer has to work And can’t while young children about , if they can stay away from the nanny not in same room etx and let them do less hours as no travel involved

If paye then Nannies will be able to be furloughed if the family can manage without them

@underneaththeash try telling them that!

No, your nanny cannot work from home. So under the current rules can come into work. You don’t need to furlough her.

Palindromic User - that's not what PAYEforNannies said to me yesterday - I wonder if they have changed their view? They've not said definitely that it will apply but they've asked me to notify them when I'm starting it from etc, sent me the Gov website link and recommended I follow the ACAS procedures

@Childcarehelp, that’s a good point about perhaps not needing them with 2 parents at home.
Not true in our case as we desperately need her, but I can’t imagine they’ll look that closely.

The Government website states “ If you and your employer both agree, your employer might be able to keep you on the payroll if they’re unable to operate or have no work for you to do because of coronavirus (COVID-19). This is known as being ‘on furlough’.”

I think it’s reasonable for parents to say they no longer have work for the nanny because one or both of them are working from home. I feel fairly confident the Government will not penalise nanny employers and nannies who are trying to do the right thing and limit the spread of infection if they are able to survive without childcare while working from home. I don’t think the Government is out to trip people up on this. They want to keep people in jobs so the economy can pick up again once this nightmare is over. Including nannies in this scheme will no doubt enable many nannies to keep their jobs.

Well as nanny, I hope that I can qualify as my boss' business has been directly hit and I will lose my job otherwise

I’m with PAYE for Nannies and their guidance has been that the nanny can come to work and that the 80% scheme does not apply. However, that is in direct contradiction to what Ofsted told our nanny and also what the employment team at the law firm I work for told me. To add a further level of complication our nanny is part time and does 2 days a week for a family of GPs. Frankly they need her more than us at the moment. But equally they are more likely to be exposed and I don’t really want to increase the risk of it coming into the house.

We’ve agreed with her that we will pay her 80%, she will not come to work and if we can reclaim, we will.

Exactly!
Maybe Nanny paye is the only one to get it right!

The more I read, the more I think that most nannies should still be working, so we won’t get it refunded. I’m basing this on the government guidance and documents... not what they said on tv, or what Martin Lewis might have said.

What has Nanny Paye said that is wrong? I've seen their emails and they seem rather more balanced (giving pros and cons to each of nanny and employer) than say Nanny Tax which seems to back track on what they said previously and now just link to the Gov website.

@MolyHolyGuacamole - I am!

@8by8 are you with NannyPaye by chance? They have been notoriously bad in their handling of the situation and the advice they've been giving, in contradiction to other nanny payrolls/agencies/organisations

PJPests I honestly think this is So unlikely. The Government has just done this so businesses do not get a tax deduction on the expense of the salary they are still paying despite receiving money for that income from Government. Nanny employers do not pay corporation tax, the rules are completely irrelevant to us. I'm genuinely not concerned about this. Even if I did have to pay income tax on the money, I'd still be far better off than paying the salary myself.

Even IF you CAN use it though, are you ok paying tax on the grant yourself? Currently the guidance says its taxable to you as the employer (and nanny) as income

What are thoughts on that nannies may not be eligible as there is still available work. Looking at the gov. Website, it is for staff when there is NO work available and not for when they choose not to go to work. Ie the place of work has been forced to close.

I’d love to offer this to my nanny for her security, but there are just so many unknowns at the moment and it’s a huge financial risk for us.

I am hoping the nanny PAYE companies are able to get clarity this week. Either, yes, they are eligible, or no, they are not, and they can legally be working.

One of my families have offered me full pay - they are hoping the 80% will apply and I think their plan is to top that up so that I'm ok financially.

Those who are furloughing their nannies, are you offering them on 80% salaries or higher?

@ConfusedbyCovid yes that’s how it reads. The guidance isn’t helped by referring to “employers” (which we are) and “businesses” (which we are not) interchangeably. So yes presently the concern is IF we can claim it, WE pay tax on it. At top of our marginal rate. They may exempt us perhaps but not had that detail as yet. I’m wary of agreeing to it unless and until I know exactly what I’m agreeing to.

@adagio if she's happy to work and you're happy for her to work and she doesn't need to use public transport, why can't she?

I don't think the guidance is sufficiently clear that it's a clear cut thing that nannies can't work. I completely understand that some are interpreting the rules as no nannying unless employer is a key worker but that's not what's been said.

I know I'll probably get flamed for this but I'm just saying it as I see it.

@ilovewinterpansies to be honest that’s normally what she does in school holidays etc (her preference) and what she did before full lockdown early last week (when my DH was still in office too so we all I thought travel to/from work was ok) but her DH was not happy. I would love for her to still take the kids, it I don’t want to cause angst with her DH.

@adagio any chance your nanny can have your children at her house? Frankly risk wise I don't see much difference at this stage - both households would either have the virus or not by last weekend anyway (provided everyone is super vigilant and following the rules now).

Not being flippant but just think about everyone's approach a couple of weeks ago, going out and shaking hands at work etc. I was horrified (I lived through Hong Kong while they had SARS - their trajectory of cases is so much flatter than Europe because they reduced infection risk so much earlier).

So I can't see that continued exposure to nanny/children makes a difference provided everyone in both households is mega vigilant and goes over and above current advice.

Our nanny has her own kids which she always brings (fine, we agreed that and like the company for our kids). At the moment she isn’t working and still on full pay. We are really struggling to wfh full time with 2 kids under 7, might need to take unpaid leave (currently juggling with a lot of evening work on top of daytime stuff to try and keep on top of it all - it’s exhausting 🙁)

I’ve assumed we can’t call her in (as she would have to bring her kids which doesn’t feel right, plus it would be even harder to wfh with 4 under 7’s in the house). She has said she’s quite happy to carry on working.

Furlough info from nannypaye is as mentioned above nannies might not be eligible as domestic employees, not business employees. Not sure what to do to be honest - if it’s not for too long, I think we can keep going. If it’s months then we can’t but really don’t want to lose her 🙁