Coronavirus- can nanny still work?

I am with you pidgy

Wow, this moved fast.

So many inaccuracies and misquotes... I really don’t know where to begin! (So I won’t bother getting personal).

Crux of the matter as I see it is that nannies are currently NOT prevented from working and it’s STILL not clear that nanny employers can claim the 80% rebate. (Despite how you’ve read the guidance from a nanny group, what Martin Lewis said, or that it should be, so it must be).

There is nothing about ‘essential’ work in government guidelines... it in fact states people should continue to work, the 2m distance is only ‘where possible’.
Plenty of people are still being asked to work... why is nannying any different? I’d say the risk is far smaller than many other jobs!

This thread was initially quite factual and useful, but is now very misleading.

If the nanny was working for one family then that on the face of it would seem ok. If they were working for multiple families then I think that would pose a problem as the incubation period is 14 days so the nanny could be moving the virus from one family to another.

Bonkers1234 Yes agreed. The health aspect is far far greater than money or our inconvenience. I wasn't aware that people were questioning if nannies should be included. The guidance both the Gov.UK and ACAS websites is quite clear. The 'Coronavirus job retention scheme' applies to ALL employees paid via a PAYE scheme regardless of ;
Full time
Part time
Agency worker
Zero hours contract.

I am just wondering if those not wanting to put their Nanny/domestic staff on furlough might not (ahem) qualify ?

As in - either pulling the old stunt of only paying partially 'through the books' therefore avoiding tax and /or NI /workplace pension etc etc .. or paying in cash.. surely this is something the lovely MN posters would never consider... but I am a forensic accountant.. and I may just be being a little cynical !

"Going out for essential work."

This is not what the Regulations say. There is nothing in them about "essential work".

@Kittensupmycurtains we agree - my nanny has not been in for weeks now and has been paid in full so far. I and DH struggling to work FT with kids and we are both key workers.

I do not want to promise furlough though only to be told in a few months it does not apply. Otherwise, to have to pay income tax myself on the grant (if I received it) from HMRC which again few people are aware of. Employers do need the facts in order to make a financial decision.

That is all aside from the health decisions to work/not to work which (in my case and yours) have already been dealt with.

Bonkers1234 I am not familiar with Nannypaye.. I simply spoke to our accountant who contacted HMRC, they confirmed that initially there was confusion because the announcement referred to 'businesses' but due to hundreds of enquiries along the same lines .. it was changed on 26/3 to 'all those employees on a PAYE system...

I would be speaking to your accountant or contacting HMRC as soon as possible not relying on some website that may or may not be regularly updated. My greatest concern was for my employees health and safety . On the basis the government wants ;
Social distancing
No unnecessary journeys
Staying at home and not visiting or have people visit.
Going out for essential work.

I couldn't in all conscience claim any of those criteria.

Yes it's a nightmare. I can't work from home very easily and can only do 2 days at home realistically. . My employer is equally irresponsible and expects me as a non key worker to commute to The City 3 days a week and sit in an office. So I have had to take a pay cut also. DH is able to WFH. We are shuffling childcare between us as well as trying to keep on top of looking after a house and grounds that previously required a housekeeper 5 days a week and a gardener for 3. (He is also on furlough).

We ARE all in this together and everyone is having a tough time. It doesn't mean putting people at risk though when you don't have to.

Well said Kittens.. you sound like a wonderfully responsible employer. !

.. and the have correctly interpreted the 'we are all in it together' mantra. Yes I am sure your lack of housekeeper and nanny has made your life MUCH harder, but you have correctly understood that your hardship doesn't trump your staffs health . !

@Kittensupmycurtains that's correct but even so, here's what nanny PAYE said in response to that:

Have the Government confirmed if an employer of a Nanny is eligible to claim?

Sadly in our view we still do not have a firm confirmation of your eligibility to the scheme. Whilst we feel the spirit of the Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme should make you eligible this has yet to be confirmed.

HMRC have updated their wording slightly to reflect all UK employers with a PAYE scheme will be able to access support as below:

“Under the Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme, all UK employers with a PAYE scheme will be able to access support to continue paying part of their employees’ salary for those that would otherwise have been laid off during this crisis.”

However, they have still kept the eligibility criteria as ‘all UK Businesses’. We have commented in our previous updates that the employer of a Nanny is not normally recognised as a business.

This has been further reinforced with a list of organisations with employees that can apply. This is not an exhaustive list but does not specifically mention employers of domestic workers which we would have hoped to see.

The wording from 'business' to 'all employees under a PAYE scheme' changed on 26/3

We have furloughed both our nanny and housekeeper. Very easy.

I absolutely agree. I would not want to put either nanny or housekeeper at risk. They both need to take public transport to get here and one has a vulnerable family member at home.

Completely irresponsible to have people coming into your house who aren't absolutely necessary. ie nurses caring for seriously ill individuals living alone.

And....
Why would you not use this scheme?

Our concern is that our clients make an employment decision to furlough an employee keeping them on a substantial wage rate and then be found to not be eligible for the 80% cost refund. Should you have chosen an alternative route such as redundancy or layoff (both of which I hasten to add are not desirable) your costs would have been substantially reduced.

Also from Nanny Paye:
Have the Government confirmed if an employer of a Nanny is eligible to claim?

Sadly in our view we still do not have a firm confirmation of your eligibility to the scheme. Whilst we feel the spirit of the Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme should make you eligible this has yet to be confirmed.

From Nannypaye.co.uk (biggest Nanny payroll scheme in the UK

Furlough and Pay

If the employee only started in February 2020, use a pro-rata for their earnings so far to claim.”
How much should I pay my employee under furlough?
You cannot reduce your employees wage below the lower of 80% of their salary of £2500 per month. You can pay a full salary but you will incur the cost of the difference between your claim amount and the full salary cost.
How long can I furlough my Nanny for?
There is a minimum period of three weeks to be able to make a claim for costs and the scheme is currently due to end on 31st May 2020. When the scheme ends the employer will need to make a decision dependent on your circumstance as to whether your Nanny can return to duties or if it may be necessary to consider termination of employment (redundancy). As always please seek specific advice around this matter from our legal team.

Bonkers1234-spot on

Patchworkpatty, your advice is misleading, we are still waiting for clarification because it currently only applies to businesses. Domestic employers are not businesses, your daughter works for a business. I hope the rules do apply to domestic employers but we must get the clarification

Patchworkpatty, if people don’t work they will loose their jobs and can’t afford their nanny so no furloughing (if that even does apply to domestic workers).

I agree - nannies should not be working - the question is what to do financially as a result.
If furlough turns out not to apply, the nanny employer is having to pay 80% wages themselves for (at least) the next 3 months assuming they can still actually afford to do so. Big financial risk to expect individual employers to take absent clarity on the point. Many will not want to take that risk and will agree something else with their nanny. Otherwise they'll have to let their nannies go.

Furlough applies to ANY PAYE employee . Fgs have a little google .. even my 17 yr old daughter working Friday and Sunday at the local pub has been put on furlough.
If she can't do her job because it's NOT ESSENTIAL and UNSAFE (according to ALL government guidelines) then the 'business' of having a nanny is closed. !

Contact HMRC and do the right thing !

But as the nanny will only end 'furlough' when it's ok to go back to work again, the Nanny will have work anyway .. however she will be protected financially to 80% of her wages for the furlough period.

'All in it together ' does not mean putting another persons health at risk because of something you want .! Many people have had to stop working or juggle work from home . That's just what you have to do. If you are key worker there are provisions. Putting your employee at risk (see previous post about this aspect of employment law) is not a 'work around' for you to get what you want. !

If furlough applies to nannies - which no one knows

Lock down

No it doesn't because the Nanny will be on furlough until the end of the kick down. Then will have to get another job or come back to you if you still require her.

Regime? any employee

And if parents can't work/take unpaid leave/lose their jobs then the nanny gets given notice anyway and the parents can't afford to pay her anymore. We're all in this together!

Employment Rights Act 1996 section 100 subsection 1 (d) protects against dismissal for not working in these circumstances...

This applies to e regime being forced to work without due regard being given to their safety.