Coronavirus- can nanny still work?

@Silverfix: we have decided not to furlough as we need childcare support to wfh.
We have given our nanny paid leave (in total it will amount to 5 weeks).

She expects to be furloughed indefinitely although she knows it is a real struggle for us - and I don’t think she expected we would easily find a replacement.

We have now found 2 potential replacements so we will have to lay her off (and the weeks of paid leave will count towards her notice period).
Even if she changes her mind about returning to work once she understands there is no more free money on offer, I am not sure I trust her. I know the coming months will be full of ups and downs and potential second waves. She is great at her job but I need someone who will not take every opportunity to stop coming in.
Many families I know have had good conversations with their nannies about how to minimise risk and make the commute and the workplace safe vs blanket refusal to work.

And this from Nanny PAYE website

If the nanny position isn't redundant I don't believe it would be eligible for the furlough scheme. See the advice from one law firm below.

Sorry @stringypotatoes but your screenshots don’t prove what you’re saying.

Yes nannies can be furloughed - it does not mean that all nannies SHOULD be furloughed.

You may travel to work IF you cannot work from home.

Do you think people who still go to work in an office, grocery store, warehouse etc maintain a 2m distance at all times? My guess is that they cannot. It’s just not always possible. That’s why the advise is clear, maintain a 2m distance where possible.

Also, where does it say that nannies should not work if both parents are at home? I’ve not seen that at all.

Honestly, not trying to be difficult here. I can see both sides. I can see why nannies would not want to go to work but that’s a discussion with your employer. It’s also the employers decision as to whether they pay you or not or whether they furlough you. I think that’s the bottom line.

Has anyone on here decided not to furlough? If so, what are you planning with nanny?

@StringyPotatoes, you’re wrong I’m afraid.

2m is where possible. See attached also from gov.co.uk and the official letter sent to all UK households.

Where are you getting the info from about not working if parents are at home? I can’t see that referenced anywhere?

Furlough is for if a job is redundant. We still need our nanny as cannot work with 3 children around.

Nannies should not be going to work if parents are at home. You CAN go to work if you're not a key worker but those who work in people's home should be maintaining a 2m distance and employers should be making provision for this. Nanny employers cannot because of the nature of the job.

Info below taken from Gov.uk website

@Pidgythe2nd I could not have put it better myself.

I really think we all need to be careful about whether or not furlough applies. Whether that's an employer relying on getting the 80% back or a nanny assuming that their employer will take that chance in the first instance.

@Wendy555

You are confusing nannies with childcare settings. They are NOT treated In the same way.

You asked what was wrong with your post:

1. You can travel to work where you cannot work from home - nannies cannot wfh so if you apply logic, you can travel to work.
2. work carried out in someone else’s home is allowed. This is totally different to mixing households for social reasons.
3. If working in someone’s home, you are advised to keep a 2m distance where possible. Not that you must, or you can’t work, it is where possible.
4. there is no mention in any official guidance that nannies can only work for key workers. This is a myth created and propagated on the various nanny groups I have seen. It is UNTRUE!
5. if 1 or both parents are working from home this does NOT automatically mean the nanny is redundant. Particularly if there are young children, the role of the nanny is still needed. The clue is in the name.. working from home. This means that quite possibly, the furlough rebate won’t apply to nanny employers when HMRC assess each situation.

I wish nannies would take a step back, think logically about the actual risk, and stop picking and choosing from the (incorrect) information that they want to be true. I’m certain many people would like to get paid for doing nothing, but if the job is still there it shouldn’t be happening.

@Wendy555 but nothing in that passage you have quoted says that nannies who provide care for one family, in a family home, cannot work for anyone other than key workers. We all know that schools and nurseries are only open for children of key workers at the moment.

This came from my payroll agency when I specifically asked about whether it was ok for nannies still to work at the moment.

“ We have contacted both Public Health England and the Department of Education for guidance on this matter. Their response was that in a setting that you are caring for or working for people in a household then it is unavoidable that you must come into contact with these people.
In these settings we advise that (as with any workplace that remains open) precautions should be followed such has regular hand washing and avoiding contact to only when it is necessary.

Adult family members should at all times unless absolutely necessary stay two meters away from their Nanny to leave her to complete her vital childcare role.
I hope this guidance helps in this unprecedented time.”

Agreed @bringonspring. see no comment from @Wendy555 to my keyworker question. Quick to rush to accusations against employer, silent when its the employee “manipulating the rules”. Both sides have to be grown up and reasonable in my view.

Put very well reddotty

The gov has closed schools and childcare settings (other than for key workers), where there are children mixing from different families. The gov has (recently) clearly stated that nannies can carry on working; they are not being treated the same as other childcare settings.

We need to read all advice and apply logic. The advise is that you can ‘travel to work if you cannot work from home’. ‘Stay 2m apart, where possible.’

There are lots of nannies who are continuing to work. There are lots of nannies who cannot work for good reason. There are also nannies who can probably work but choose not to. It’s at the employers discretion as to what to do, taking everything into consideration. What works for one, may not work for another. Let’s try and be understanding of all sides. Employer bashing does not help as we’re all trying to do the best we can while keeping our own jobs and our own families financially stable.

@ilovewinterpantes

The info l posted pertains to childcare workers, lm not sure where the connection is with regards to your work setting.

@eurochick
Do you know what find frustrating, is being accused of doing something l didn’t do.

@Wendy555 the do not meet others rule is a social rule. It does not apply in a work situation otherwise as you say it clashes with the "work from home if you can" guidance.

I agree with you. It’s a tricky one but from what l have read , l don’t really think nanny’s have a choice. Under the “ covid19 What you need to do, it states “ Do not meet others, even friends or family , a live out nanny would already be breaking this ruling. Secondly it also that schools and childcare providers can continue to care for a limited number of vulnerable children and children whose parents are critical to covid19 response etc, so it seems that if you do not fall within those categories there are restrictions

@Wendy555 a nanny working is nothing to do with being or working for a key worker.

Eg at my work (a law firm), the vast majority of staff at working from home. But there are still a few people that go to the office to sort post and scan documents etc, to support the others working from home. They are not key workers. But the risk of them going into the office, given the circumstances where everyone else is socially distancing, is minimal.

And if they do not want to work then they need to resign. No furlough, no unpaid leave. Their job is still required and it can't be done from home. It has absolutely nothing to do with being or working for key workers.

It is frustrating to see people who don't understand the law purportedly advising on it. As you did. How can it be an insult to ask for the legal qualifications of someone trying to convince me of a legal position? Putting it in caps doesn't make it so.

The law is clear. People who can't work from home can go to work (unless they work in one of the classes of business that have been ordered to close, such as bars and restaurants). That includes nannies.

FROM THE GOV.UK PAGE

It is important to underline that schools, all childcare settings (including early years settings, childminders and providers of childcare for school-age children), colleges and other educational establishments, remain safe places for children. But the fewer children making the journey to school, and the fewer children in educational settings, the lower the risk that the virus can spread and infect vulnerable individuals in wider society.

Schools, and all childcare providers, are therefore being asked to continue to provide care for a limited number of children - children who are VULNERABLE , and CHILDREN WHOSE PARENTS ARE CRITICAL TO THE COVID -19 RESPONSE and cannot be safely cared for at home.

VULNERABLE CHILDREN INCLUDE : children who are supported by social care, those with safeguarding and welfare needs, including child in need plans, on child protection plans, ‘looked after’ children, young carers, disabled children and those with education and health care (EHC)plans.
As l said in my first post. Nanny’s should not be working unless you or your partners are KEYWORKES

@eurochick

There’s no need for INSULTS

just because you disagree with something you presumed l said. One does not need to be a lawyer or solicitor to have share on here.

@Wendy555 what’s your source for that law/ policy statement? It’s entirely out of line with anything I have read or been advised

I agree that nannies (obviously) have the choice not to work.
I also think that nannies who choose not to work (those who are not in a vulnerable group or shielding another family member) should not be eligible for JRS (and the advice I got from my payroll provider is that indeed they are not).
So of course, employers should understand if a nanny does not want to come in to work in current circumstances but should then provide unpaid leave - it’s not fair for nannies to take advantage of a scheme that was designed to help those who no longer have jobs.
The rules are to keep a 2m distance at work where possible. Supermarket workers, postal workers, and many other jobs out there are at a far higher risk than nannies but people are still applying for those jobs because they want to earn an income and contribute to the economy.

Interesting @Wendy555. As you are advising on the law, presumably you are a solicitor or barrister?

And this is very naive. "Do you really think HMRC is going to be chasing after working parents/individuals who are nanny employers, rather than businesses with many employees on furlough?"
HMRC will always go after easy pickings. Nanny employers, many of whom are professionals with professional registrations to maintain and so need to be scrupulously honest in their financial dealing are easy pickings.