Paying Notice After Safeguarding Issues

@Lolacat1234....
Many many more people use the thousands of childminders in the country than the tiny percentage who have issues.....its also really really common for parents who want to leave to suddenly come out with complaints to justify suddenly leaving with no further payment....but the reasons are not followed through with proper complaints if the OP is worried about safety they should follow complaints procedure just like if you were accused of doing something at work you should not just be shown the door without right of reply....its a legal contract not an I need money so who cares.

I wouldn’t pay because you will need that money.....

The problem with this approach is that it isn’t a good legal basis on which to refuse payment, and it could end up costing the OP a lot more.

As already stated, the childminder is almost certainly able to pursue the debt at no cost to herself, win or lose. If the OP loses, she could have legal costs on top of the debt, plus debt collection fees if it involves sheriff's fees to go collect cash or goods. On top of which, her credit rating will take the most severe pounding imaginable.

I think she has two courses of action open to her. One is to follow the childminder's official complaints procedure, in the hope the childminder might accept some liability. The other is to rely on the Consumer Rights Act to limit the amount payable when exiting the contract. She’d be well advised to employ a solicitor for this. It’s just possible a solicitor's letter to the childminder's legal team/insurer might make them think it’s cheaper for them to pay the childminder as noted insurance settlement rather than get involved in a dispute. Or they/she might agree a reduction in the amount payable in consideration of the actual loss incurred.

I wouldn't pay because you will need that money to secure childcare at short notice with another setting as they usually ask for a month in advance! I'm going back to work next month and this worries me so much, I like the childminder I have chosen but I'm sure you were comfortable with yours at one point!x

I don’t think this will fly as a complaint.

By all means phone Ofsted and tell them you have safeguarding concerns based on: a dirty face and hands; one incident of soiled nappy; one incident of nappy rash; one incident of a potential choking hazard in a child’s mouth (still not an actual choking.)

Ofsted are far too nice to actually laugh, and they’ll politely take all the details. But behind that professional telephone manner they’ll be doing the big eye roll.

I doubt you’ll have any success claiming the childminder breached the contract. That would probably require you getting a complaint to stick, and I think this is somewhat out of proportion.

You need to follow the childminder's complaints procedure in the first instance. If you’re lucky, she might make an admission of negligence in her response, or you could escalate to Ofsted if she fails to respond, which means she’d effectively catch herself out on a technicality.

The childminder is unlikely to have to go through the hassle of small claims. She will hand the case over to the legal team at her insurer or professional representative body, and they will do the whole legal bit for her. It will take one or two phone calls and the cost of a stamp.

Hook in mouth was wrong and health and safety issue

As are a dirty face and hands and a dirty nappy

Why didn’t you ask where you could change your son

Nappy rash can happen in minutes - has before with my dd esp when teething. Clean nanny. They poo. You change and rash :(

You don’t sound happy there so move but you need to pay the notice

Children get occasional nappy rash when teething and may well do last minute poohs. Personally I'd suggest changing before he left....you cant leave with no notice for one off nappy rash.
Dirty face and hands.....again I'd wipe but sometimes the muck comes back....glue, runny noses, yoghurt and cereal are very persistent....you cant leave without notice for that.
Not being there on pick up time.....did you discuss it with her? Are you late collecting and shes had to go out?
The hook....a terrible thing that could be nasty.....but could happen in any setting.....did you do a formal complaint as per her complaints procedure? Once you do this she has 21 days to respond then if your not happy you report to ofsted who will look at what she has put in place to prevent it happening again.
If you dont pay she will take legal action as her insurance pay and do all the leg work it costs her nothing.

She will have legal cover through her insurance and will set legal proceedings in process, if it goes to court you will then have to pay court fees as well as the money you owe and could end up with CCJ , she will not have to pay anything set this is motion

Posted too soon - she will have legal cover with her insurance to cover recovering money.

You could always just not pay. She probably can't be bothered with the hassle of going through small claims.

The hook in the mouth I agree with. You could always just not pay. She probably can't be bothered with the hassle of going through small claims.

I don't understand why you didn't just ring the woman if she wasn't at home?

If you think dirty hands, faces and unwiped arses are a safe guarding issue then you are not going to like it when you are your DC goes to school.

But mumsnet is childminder heavy...
I’m really surprised to read this. I always feel childminders are in the minority and often feel that we are vilified and made out to be the worst option for childcare.

But, back to the op.

Having a dirty nappy at pick up and grubby hands and face are not really safeguarding issues on their own, especially as a one off. If a child Was constantly dirty, I’d be concerned, but at the end of a busy day, I’d not be too concerned and try to move past it.

The metal hook isn’t great at all and cm should have been very apologetic about this and reassure you that she would check the rest of the setting to check there weren’t any other small objects in reach of the babies. But, these things do happen occasionally, we are only human and although I am really vigilant about small pieces of stuff on the floor, very occasionally something will sneak through and catch me out (there was a button on the floor this week, probably fallen off a Christmas decoration and hidden under something and then kicked out to be found by a toddler later on).
It doesn’t sound like you trust your cm though, so I think you would be better to move on and find alternative care for your dc. But I do think a clean break would be better and think you should pay the notice period and move on.

The health and safety issues are not great. I would have changed your child's nappy before they left - the rash can sometimes be linked to teething, but I would not have left them in a dirty nappy. The hook is unfortunate and I would reassure you that I had checked the safety of any other hooks etc in my environment. The dirty hands and face I would have offered to wipe before you left, but I would not be overly concerned about them, unless it was all the time. The not being there at arranged pickup time - was there any explanation for this? Stuck in traffic on the way back from the school run or something? Very annoying otherwise.

I would say with these examples, you should pay the notice, unless there is more to it. You could report her to ofsted, but they will just ask her for her risk assessment and details about how she works with parents.

Safeguarding issues should be reported to OFSTED.

If you consider the issues are serious enough to do this, then by all means retain your 4 weeks money until a resolution/enquiry takes place. If OFSTED find in her favour- and they probably would as certainly 2 out of the 3 are not safeguarding issues - then you'd probably be required to pay anyway.

if you dont think they are serious enough to warrent reporting, then just take your child away and pay as per contract.

As others have said, the hook is a H&S issue, not safeguarding.
Pay the notice as per your contract.

I think you need to pay the notice period
Mucky hands and a soiled nappy are not really safeguarding concerns
The object in the mouth could happen anywhere and is part of looking after children

I still disagree that this is a safeguarding case, especially since they are one offs.

One offs you know about

Of course it’s safeguarding.
If a little toddler was taken to a&e having swallowed / choked on a hook (even in their own home), you can bet your bum there would be a follow up call from social services. Perhaps a home visit to ensure the environment was suitable for a child. Because accidents happen, but people in sole charge of under 3s need to be vigilant when it comes to small objects because of the risk of choking.

I agree I wouldn’t like my child to get nappy rash or have got hold of a hook to put in his mouth, and as I said you absolutely have the right to no longer use her service. I still disagree that this is a safeguarding case, especially since they are one offs.

Those are Health and Safety issues rather than Safeguarding. Have you followed her complaints process? If you withdraw without doing so you are likely to be liable for fees in lieu of notice.

Agree it’s not ideal and you’re certainly within your rights to leave if you don’t find her care satisfactory to you, but really this isn’t a ‘safeguarding issue’ and actually it’s quite insulting to real victims of safeguarding abuse concerns.

**I wouldn't pay - as she has breached her contract with you to take care of your child

I would also report her to whatever body is relevant**

^This

Dirty hands and face are really not a safeguarding issue.

I had to report a childminder and withdrew my children straight away. I didn't say why I was withdrawing but she obviously found out when she was contacted by Ofsted. She charged her 4 week notice and I paid it, just wanted rid of her and a clean break without the hassle.