Long term effects of early, extensive childcare

You said you didn't need the money so what was it that made you go back to work? The need to feel like you could do it all? That you could have the career, the nice home, the holidays? The need to feel more fulfilled?

Evidence that shows the many links (causal in some cases as described by the LSE) between household income and expenditure per child and a wide range of outcomes for those children?

I wonder if anyone ever asks men if they're working for the nice house and holidays

Nah, men are allowed to be Manly Providers, whereas women who work unless their Manly Providers don't provide sufficiently, are in it for the cars, holidays and manicures. Oh, or selfish career ambitions.

I agree, why is it so hard to believe that people not just women, remember voluntarily put their children in childcare? It no more occurred to me than it did to my DH to scale back my career because we had a child.

A useful guide to evaluating research is to query where the research came from, what it’s source of funding was and what the external evaluation of the study’s parameters were.

For what it is worth - this study was produced and funded by an organisation that promotes conservative American family values. That is a significant determinant of the kind of findings it would accept promote and speak about

Hmmm it worries me but I was worried anyway
My son will be doing nursery 7:30am to 5pm 3 days a week at 13 months old and then 2 further days at my parents ( which I am super grateful for )
It’s needs must I need to go back to work.
But I will have a common sense approach if he suffers clearly as a result a new nursery will be looked at or potentially I will try working less hours ( though financially will be troublesome to say the least )
He comes first but it’s a case of paying the mortgage and eating vs how he is doing.

I am hopeful that he is going to cope beautifully as he is a very social and bold baby 🤞

Debates like these are sexist BS designed to make women feel guilty for having to/choosing to work. Bet they don’t discuss this crap on DadsNet!

hugsgalore I wonder if anyone ever asks men if they're working for the nice house and holidays 🙄

I returned to work because I bloody love my job and I've worked hard to get to this position. It was as simple as that.

onetwo

I have a number of friends who chose to put their children in full time 8-6 nursery from 6-9 months old. They could have afforded a nanny or for one of them to give up work but they didn't want to.

I don't understand why you find that so hard to believe!

My DH and I are able to compress our hours to do 4.5 days in 4 which works well for us and means 3 days in nursery. But we work in a sector that allows us to do that with minimal impact on our careers, which our friends don't.

onetwo we could have afforded one to one professional care but we chose the local village nursery because for us and our very sociable DS that was the obvious choice.

We live in a small village. The nursery is outstanding and most of the village kids go there and then on to the local school. Childcare has not damaged these children. They've thrived....that clear to see as they've progressed.

Both me and Dh chose to continue working full time at the same organisation. However, I'm the only one who's had their working patterns discussed and commented on. Funny that......🙄

I agree. I say this as a parent who used childcare more often than I would have liked due to the necessity of working. Modern life means this is the case for many people and if living costs don't go down, or wages don't rise significantly , it is going to be the future.
My DC did not go to full time childcare but I still feel like they spent more time there than was the right balance.

@Hugsgalore - yes, Parker chose to work. That's not unusual. I hear many men do that, too.

My point was that - not many people would actively choose to put their child in a nursery full time, from infancy for an extended period.

If you had the money, the vast majority would choose in-home, 1-on-1 professionally qualified care, over a nursery, for obvious reasons.

DH and I both wanted to continue with our careers which in the earlier stages couldn’t be done part time or after time out. We were no different from many our friends and family members.

Hugsgalore - does anyone ask her husband whether he worked full time instead of looking after the kids for 'the holidays' and whether he was trying to 'have it all?'.

There's such a level of sexism in these god damn debates.

(yes, I'm aware I'm making a judgement that @Parker231 is a married straight woman. Sorry if that's not the case).

@OneTwoThreeDoeRayMe parker just said she did exactly that.
@Parker231 there was obviously something that made you chose working full time over spending more time at home with your children? You said you didn't need the money so what was it that made you go back to work? The need to feel like you could do it all? That you could have the career, the nice home, the holidays? The need to feel more fulfilled?

I honestly don't think many people would actively choose to put their child/ren in full time nursery care - Monday-Friday,
9-5 (or more realistically: 8-6).

I certainly don't think many people would choose to start doing it when they're only months old, and/or long term.

If you had a choice - and the money to fund your choices - I do believe most people would go part time, opt for in-home care or stay at home themselves.

Clearly many people don't have a choice, and many people have good experiences of nurseries.

But a full day, 5 days a week? I don't think anyone can say that is optimum for a baby or child.

I didn’t to work. I chose to.

@Parker231 I never said anywhere in my post that people who put their children into a creche love them less than people who don't. Every one needs to do what they need to do. If you felt that you needed to work full time then you did what suited YOU best...

@Hugsgalore - I love my DT’s more than anything but didn’t mean I couldn’t continue with my career whilst they were expertly looked after by well trained experienced nursery staff. Believe it or not you can love your DC’s and work full time. I’m lucky - my DT’s are at Uni so I can say that full time nursery doesn’t damage them - DD is laughing reading this over my shoulder!

Look... people need to do what they need to do. If you need to go to work to heat the house and put food in your kids belly then it's need to be done. I don't think anyone should be made to feel guilty for a choice they really haven't got.... BUT... I do genuinely feel that kids are better off spending more time with mum and dad than in a care setting where they are one of many. No one loves your child more than you do and I think children benefit hugely having that love around as much as possible.

My 2 year old DD goes to preschool for 15 hours a week and I can genuinely say that she is flourishing there.

However, she went to nursery for 2 days a week from 6 months old and I am not sure whether that was the right thing for her at all.

Quebec isn’t really a prosperous part of Canada over all and the average family size is larger than is average in the Western world The free childcare was over subscribed by families with chaotic lifestyles / large families which is known to increase anxiety in children. If you want proper studies in the long term affects of childcare you are better off reading scandinavian studies. These tend to be larger and seem to confirm that long term childcare, particularly with older parents, is associated with better long term outcomes for kids.

But @Lemongrasssugar, surely you can see that everything you say is about neglectful parenting, not the fact of using childcare?

It is not normal for parents to attempt to bring in a child with measles daily and have to be turned away, or not to pick up their ill children from childcare, or not to brush their children's hair or bath them. Do you honestly think that these children would be having a lovely, attentively-parented life if they were kept at home rather than looked after in a childcare scenario?

These type of threads come up ever so often.

I didn’t need to work at all but chose to return to full time work when DT’s were six months old (normal maternity leave then). DT’s went to nursery and did well - I don’t see the problem. They are now at Uni so I’ve the evidence of their good relationship with DH and I, academic success, great friendship group, confidence and are now adults I’m proud of.

I definitely think that there is a line where it becomes too much for the children.

I work in a nursery and there are some children who are in 50 weeks a year 7.30 to 6pm everyday. We also do baby sitting and drop offs for some children so they may not spend time with their parents all day or weekend depending.

If a child is there from 7.30 until 6, what time do they wake up? What time do they sleep? Do they go home, have dinner and then straight to bed without spending time with their parents?

These children are also never collected when they are sick. By 4 O'clock they get very restless and begin trying to run out of the door. If they are babies they will become very restless and cry.

We have noticed that after the christmas holiday, the parents who have had to have their children by force as we are closed, tend to spend more time with their children and will pick them up earlier. But then it reverts back.

Some parents dont even take their children on holiday with them they will let their parents have them and bring them in everyday. This isn't a problem normally but if they are in 50 weeks a year and then the parents get a break and they dont.

With regards to the childrenhvaing higher anxiety I can see that also The children that are in longer hours tend to have comfort, blankets, toys and have the dummy for longer than other children.

Recently we also has a parent who bought their child in who had confirmed measles and kept trying to bring them in everyday and has to be turned away.

The children that are in longer hours also dont have baths or have their hair brushed. We have to give them a strip wash with baby wipes. For some children we are definitely their main carer.

We have also had parents ask us if we are open on boxing day and what on earth are they suppose to do with their child that week.

This is a very expensive nursery in Nottinghill btw.

OP, can I gently suggest you spend less time googling research and instead use that time to learn to critically evaluate research?

For example, the Sutton Trust link you shared is reasonably silent on childcare - the only mention in the actual study notes longitudinal studies on the effects of early childcare, which showed that early non-parental childcare in general did not affect children’s attachment. However, for children who are already at risk by virtue of not having received sensitive maternal care, low-quality early childcare did elevate the risk of insecure attachment.

It undermines you quite a bit when you claim a study has said something when in fact it says pretty much the opposite.

I agree pass the cherry coke - I’d say a fair few SAHM are there because childcare would take up more/all/most of their salary therefore for them it doesn’t make economic sense to work .
At the end of the day majority try and do what’s best for their children and of course some women genuinely have more choice . As others have mentioned children vary and what suits one may not suit another .