Advice appreciated - childminding rates

Don't forget that as an employer you also need to pay into a pension for a nanny too. Second the recommendation of a site like nannytax

What you're describing is not a CM but a nanny share. I was shocked when you said £12/hr for a CM. I pay mine £3/hr per child! For a nanny though, £12/hr is reasonable. However, like others have said there are a whole host of issues to consider. You could try using an umbrella company like Nannytax.co.uk - they do all the paperwork for you and keep things right with HMRC. They also have sample contracts you can use. I wouldn't get into this arrangement without a contract or making sure it's all above-board taxwise. Even if SIL will be offended, that's her problem!

This lady def isn’t a cm if looking after children in someone else’s house

Hi,
Even qualified nannies have to register to be childminders if that is what they want to do.
When I first began minding if you were not registered and were caught you and the parents each faced a £1000 fine. Nowadays it is 10k each.
However she sounds definitely like a nanny. No idea how much they charge but they can register with Ofsted and the employers ie you and SIL are responsible for national insurance, tax etc.

Always use a registered childminder or Nanny. Ash to see her qualifications on childcare and registration.

Yes anyone employed gets smp
Anyone se is entitled to ma

Do nannys get maternity pay? A friend employed an assistant who became eligble for maternity pay after 6 months had to pay her and cover wages for a year took HMRC's another 9 months to repay it

Yes sounds likes a nanny

She is at yours £12ph. Is this nett or gross

Always discuss gross

Will you then be paying her a pension and employed ni

At sil she will be doing a nanny share

She isn’t a cm as not at her house

To have £20ph for 3 kids is over the top

She is trying to do cm rates as charges sil per child

OP, thanks for clarifying in response to my questions.

I agree with NannyNick and Lunde (excellent advice from those two contributors) that you need to treat this as a nanny share, but you must take responsibility as employers, giving the woman full employment rights, payroll and tax/NI payments.

Failure to do do will leave you liable for breaking employment law and tax fraud, the consequences of which are far from pretty.

Better still if she could register as a nanny , to access to government help with fees.

This sounds much more like a nanny share than a childminder - you need to check up your legal responsibilities as a nanny employer. You are taking a huge risk if you don't do it legally. Leaving a baby full time is a lot different to hiring an afterschool babysitter as your SIL does.

Have you actually done any of the basic checks that people do for this childminder/nanny in sole care of your baby

• criminal background check?
• insurance?
• first aid certificate
• childcare qualifications

Childminders must work from their home that is registered with OFSTED.If she is working in your home as a nanny you would be open to a prosecution for evading your responsibilities as a nanny employer to organise payroll and ensure that tax and NI are paid.

What happens if your child or nanny are injured in your home? Are you covered on your insurance if you are not employing her legally?

If your nanny was properly registered with OFSTED then you could apply for tax free childcare where the government tops up your payments with up to 20%.

You really should not be entrusting someone to look after children if they are not registered. Does she even have a CRB or whatever they are called now?
Forget about the money side of things. Does she even have first aid training or even insurance?
Very dodgy...

I believe she is not a registered CM.

Why on earth would you put your children at risk by not choosing a registered childminder? If she is looking after children in her own home without registration with Ofsted or an agency, she's breaking the law. Is she insured? Has she completed a paediatric first aid course? Has she undertaken the relevant training? Will she be following the EYFS? She's not even a cheap option fgs. I charge £8 per hour for babies and I'm working legally! It all sounds like a very sub-standard arrangement to me, for the OPs convenience rather than in the child's best interests.

Doing some of the care at your home and some at SIL's home could work but do consider what happens during school holidays. Do you want the older children at your home? Also consider if you are able to work from home whilst nanny and your son are there... it can work well and sometimes it does not.

Why does she not look after your son at SIL's house? That would resolve the legal issue, as it would then be a nannyshare (she is caring for your son, plus SIL's children all at SIL's home).

It fits with the legislation: 3(1)a,ii www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2008/979/article/3/made

It can then be contracted as a nanny, with you and SIL being joint or separate employers. You would have employers national insurance to pay and pension scheme to provide, so you would need to determine your overall costs.

It would be certainly reasonable for the amount you pay to be lower when the older children are present, maybe 33.33% but maybe 40% you and 60% SIL would make for an easier calculation and as her home is being used that may be seen to be a bit fairer.

I may have misunderstood but I’m struggling to see a clear picture from your original post.

Are the children going to be at your home and/or SIL's home throughout the whole period (excluding necessary travel, school runs, trips to the park, etc.) ?

To a large extent the answer will define whether this is unregistered nannying or unlawful 'childminding'. If it turns out to nannying, then it’s probably lawful, but you’ll face a new set of legal responsibilities to make it so.

Is any of the care provided at the 'child carers' home? If so, how many hours in a day?

You also need to decide is that net or gross. Typically nannies work on net rates, which means that when you employ her, which you must legally, you will pay more per hour than that, as you will pay employers NI based on her gross rate, not her net.
In London, an employed nanny starts around £12ph net, so you she is getting good deal getting paid per child as that is not usually what happens.

Have you also thought what will happen if your child is sick and she is meant to be at SIL house or the other way round? How will that work? Drag the sick child to the other house? Being the healthy kids to the sick kids house?
Will she have 4 weeks holiday from your employment and 4 weeks with SIL? Who will then cover her? Who sets her holiday dates? Her, you or SIL? What if you can't agree dates?

Also, the person who employs her first will pay a different tax rate then the second I think. So it will cost one family more than the other even when paying the same amount net. As you will be paying gross.

In North London. My childminder charges £7 per hour per kid for after school. I have 2 dc with her.

Just to be clear, she cannot legally look after your child in her home as she is not a registered childminder.

Registration is not a formality - it is a legal requirement.

If you want her to be a nanny, she needs to work in your home and you need to employ her.

Around my way its around £5.00 an hour. £12 is very expensive. (thats for a childminder in there home.)

OP but she really does seem like a nanny and not a childminder, so different things. As a sole charge nanny, I think you should pay her the agreed £12 ph and then as it's a nanny share after 3pm both you and your SIL should be paying nanny share rates - which is currently minimum wage for her age from both of you

And OP, your main questions seem to be all about money. What you should pay her. Nothing about her qualifications, her insurance, her legal status, your legal obligations-both contractual and employing somebody. You don't seem concerned at all about any of these things.