Dh signed CM contract for extortionate fee- can we back out?

You said you emailed her, OP. Did she reply?

I think extortionate in this circumstances fairly clearly means "very high", not that OP thinks the CM is literally trying to extort money.

Thinking Waitrose is extortionate compared to Tesco isn't a condemnation of all supermarkets. Nor does it mean I think Waitrose are doing anything wrong, it's just more than I want to pay.

I think the OP was asking for advice about a fairly specific set of circumstances. Laying the ills of the entire childcare industry at her door is a bit unfair.

Again I agree.

But i don’t see how it’s "extortionate" for a working woman to charge a fee that reflects her costs and might, all things considered, bring her up to something like minimum wage for her hours worked. In what way is she extorting money?

Other unhelpful posts mentioned "crazy prices"; "bloody cheeky" CM fees; and "stuff her contract". Do you find these reasonable or helpful?

The "lack of choice" which the OP highlights is, for the most part, down to the fact that fees are unrealistically low. Childcare providers really can’t wait for someone to sort out the funding/subsidy issue, although they are remarkably reluctant to make the most of a 'buyers market' in the way any other business might. Fees continue to be depressed and lag behind cost increases through a strange combination of sympathy for parents, loyalty, and the bizarre notion that childcare settings have to locally price-match to other settings.

Funding and subsidy has been a total mess for many years; although it has to be said there has never previously been as much help for working families as there is today. But when childcare providers were crying out for the system to be completely reformed, it was parents and parent lobby organisations who voted for the mess to be made worse by extending rather than reforming a broken system.

The OP and many others have called for childcare to be subsidised by the government.

I think that's an acknowledgment of the fact that childcare that is affordable for parents but provides a decent wage for childcare providers probably just isn't achievable via the normal free market.

Fair enough, although I think the word "extortionate" is a little ill-considered, and it’s depressing that people continue to believe that dangerously low fees are the way forward.

Well my advice would be the same, yes. Check the cancellation provisions, apologise and try and negotiate, take into account how likely the other side is to peruse legal options (taking into account the loss they have suffered).

The OP has acknowledged that it was a bit of a cock up and she is in no way accusing the childminder of being money grabbing. I don't think this is a childminder bashing thread.

I can’t help wondering what the reaction would be on here if this sort of situation were reversed. If a childminder had signed a standard contract with a parent for the all too common £4 or so, then the childminder's DP how crazy s/he is to provide a service for so little money, considering the costs, qualifications, experience and lengthy wo4king week, etc.

Would everyone be encouraging the childminder in my example to back of the contract with a clean conscience and no obligations?

jannier - In Scandinavia around 50% of what you earn goes in tax, which many would not accept in this country.....

In the 1970s perhaps but not these days.

I live in Sweden which is famous for high taxes but reforms mean that most people pay 23-26% in tax - made up of:
19-23% in Local Authority taxes for local services - schools, social services and care, refuse collection, water and sewage, street cleaning and snow ploughing etc
10-13% in County tax - which mostly funds healthcare

Only higher earners pay any state or national taxes they pay an additional 20% on the portion of their income that exceeds £43,000

Tell her if she won't let you cancel you'll give notice anyway and it would be cleaner for everyone just to let you go.

In Scandinavia around 50% of what you earn goes in tax, which many would not accept in this country.....

As a note you said it was a Pacey contract, so look to see if she has given you a settling in period (not the time when you go for short visits but a time in which each party can decide to end the contract and only work done is paid for....its in the settling in section with details in the small print on reverse of pg 2 (I think).

Please also check that other providers do not charge a minimum hours or set fees because often the hourly rate is the rate charged for full time children not part time or wrap around, you don't want to burn your boats.

If she won't let you cancel, surely you can give notice and start with someone else soon?

Unfortunately, the general public don’t want subsidised childcare. They chose to vote for a coalition government, then the Conservatives, who cut nearly all funding, bursaries and subsidies for the Early Years.

You’re now charged what it actually costs to provide childcare. If you want a comparison, I once had to take a taxi after hours from the hospital where my DD had been rushed in earlier that day. It’s around the same distance as one of the schools I pick up from.
I was charged £25. That’s without the childcare, activities and meals that I would provide - and you say you have 2 children?

I agree the current childcare system in the U.K. is not fit for purpose. The cost keeps far too many (mostly) women out of work.

Agree with you OP. Cottage industries charging what they feel like hardly fulfill the needs of a working population, particularly in the UK which is effectively a low wage economy with a high cost of living.

Arnoldillo Wed 06-Feb-19 22:33:08

"Agree that high flat fees for wraparound are common for childminders and you do just have to suck it up. They're a business and they really don't care that you're seeing so little of your own earnings. It sucks but that's how it is."

Don't forget that what you pay is not what they earn if a childmidner receives £15 an hour from 3 clients at least £5 goes on expenses like food (how much does 1 child eat in a cooked dinner, and after school snack... tonnes....), insurance, activities, training, consumables like loo paper, maintenance (3 plumbers this year due to loo roll blockages from 8 year olds). Then they pay the normal deductions, on top of that there will be times when they are open but not full and when they have funded children who in some areas are paying more than £1.50 less than the normal regional rate per hour....the government tell us that we should make up this shortfall by charging more for non funded children's hours including sessional fees.

Your child is a massive responsibility to keep safe and educate not just care for regulations mean once they go home paperwork out of hours has to be done on each child (under 5) its not just the hours that the children are there that make up the childcare work.

Childminders are limited in the number of spaces that they can fill 3 under 5 and 3 under 8 (they also obviously have to factor in things like room in cars and parents who may say they are collecting everyday at 2.30 but run late effectively meaning unexpected children need to go in cars), this means that they only have so many spaces to sell. If a child goes home at say 4pm she cant go back and fill up on another school child between 4 and closing time so she either refuses children out right as the hours wanted are not viable or makes a sessional charge that pays for the space a child is taking. Similarly in the morning a child arriving 5 minutes before the school run would cost the child-minder the time between opening hours and arrival time so they tend to sell the session time regardless of attendance. Its not money grabbing its economics either you fill up the whole space available or you cant run your business.
With many childminders earning less than minimum wage after costs its the only way to survive.
School clubs tend to run with a much higher pupil/adult ratio 0urs is 1 to 15 or 20, they have minimal overheads as the school tends to run it and don't pay rent, heating is already on etc. food tends to be subsidised (ours gets cereal from Nestles free) and buy milk in bulk or do 1 slice of toast from Economy loaves brought in bulk no spread. There is no way a childminder could compete on the price they charge £2.50 a morning. But the clubs were originally set up for kids who came to school hungry not working parents.

Have you checked to see if you can Clai, some of the fees back ?

BeekyChitch Wed 06-Feb-19 19:11:26

"she could take it further but do you really think a CM would go to those lengths? I really don't think so.Just tell her you're really sorry but you won't be using her services."

Why wouldn't she, childminders pay to get legal cover annually for fighting just this type of thing so its not going to cost her anything. If she accepted the work and turned other work away she would be out of pocket so may well hand it to her legal team.

Re a nanny- you may find the ones who will do before and after school are slightly more casual, and you’d have more luck asking on a local FB group or [apologies] local Netmums pages. I know a few in my area, and they do, for e.g. cleaning jobs or looking after an elderly person during the day, then school pick up for someone later. Don’t discount these people - the ones I know are amazing with children, and very responsible.