What am I doing wrong... or do we just have too many kids?

*An au pair isn’t classed as a worker or an employee if most of the following apply:

they’re an EU citizen or have entered the UK on a Youth Mobility visa or student visa
they’re here on a cultural exchange programme
they’ve got a signed letter of invitation from the host family that includes details of their stay, for example accommodation, living conditions, approximate working hours, free time, pocket money
they learn about British culture from the host family and share their own culture with them
they have their own private room in the house, provided free of charge
they eat their main meals with the host family, free of charge*

This is the trouble with self proclaimed experts dismissing everyone else.

underneaththeash sorry, you are wrong. If you read HMRC guidance, it specifically excludes Au Pairs because it is classed as a cultural exchange.

If you and your husband both work from home and have some flexibility could you reduce the hours to 25 per week. I think it just sounds exhausting with 4 children. I used to babysit and while happy with 1 or 2 I wouldn’t have been keen on 4.

Sorry I know it’s probably not what you want to hear! Good luck

Lounge - it's been a long time since anyone has called me bossy boots; primary school maybe .

Payment of over £116 a week requires you to register as an employer for TAX purposes. If you ring HMRC they will confirm it, if you don't believe me.

And yes, I do think I'm pretty knowledgeable when it comes to au pairs, we've had 7 successful placements, all of whom have stayed or wanted to stay longer than their original placement and we still keep in touch with 6 of them. We're visiting our German au pair in Germany this Summer. I've also helped several of my friends find au pairs and we've had a couple staying in our au pair's flat when things have broken down with their host families.

It's clearly evident that several of the posters on this thread have no idea what they are talking about and my point is why post? It's unhelpful to the OP and just goady. I wouldn't post on a thread about chicken feeding or SEN as I don't know anything about them.

From gov.uk

There are special rules for au pairs, who aren’t usually considered workers or employees

If you’re a small employer that expects to pay less than £1,500 a month, you can arrange to pay quarterly - contact HMRC’s payment enquiry helpline

And reading through the site, au pairs are still exempt as it’s classed as pocket money.

Interesting subject and not sure I like the sweeping in of bossy boots declaring that none of us have had Au Pairs and even if some posters haven’t, I am not sure that having employed one makes a poster an authority on the subject.

I think it’s simple, it’s not attracting applicants because it’s not an attractive package.

Another one who thinks you are asking far too much.

I have four young kids and a busy crazy house. I pay my babysitters very well (depending on how late we are, but never less than £50 a night).

Whilst my kids are generally well behaved, and we don't go out often, anyone who I trust with my kids, well, I want them to feel well compensated, so that should things ever go unexpectedly downhill, they don't feel taken advantage of and are keen to return.

As an ex au pair, I would absolutely skip over your profile. Sorry!

As someone who has been an Au Pair, for me it would just be that it's too many children I'm afraid . I found it hard enough with my placements with families of 2 kids.

I was also going to suggest that the uncertainty of the au pair's position after Brexit might be putting them off.

Would you consider an au pair couple? They often find it hard to find a host family because of space constraints, but it sounds like you would have enough space for two.

Lots of people unfamiliar with the au pair topic here

My thoughts as a long term au pair employer:

You've already raised money to the max which I would have suggested. It seems the room/bathroom situation is good so nothing more to do there

4 children is frankly a lot compared to your competition (other host families), you need to be very clear in your profile that you don't expect laundry and cleaning at all if that is the case

30 hours is too much for an au pair (very surprised that you think this is the norm...) you need to reduce your expectations here

Au pairs are not pre-schooler care or all-day nannies, you need to ensure that the children (all 4 of them) are in full time childcare, au pairs are first thing and end of school day only.

Offer to pay for language classes, travel and sim

We have had a few au pairs, all have stayed well beyond the year, it's about demonstrating that you'll help them become fluent in English and have a great experience, welcome them as part of your family.

I think Brexit plus the fact that you are recruiting outside the usual recruiting season in summer mean it's harder, but not impossible. I wish you luck.

OP what will you do with the school aged children in the holidays? Perhaps the AP's are worried they'll be expected to look after them, which would of course be ridiculous; maybe make it explicitly the advert that this isn't the case?

Do they not get paid per child?! Surely they all opt for fewer kids in that case!

I haven't read the whole thread but a lot of the first 2 pages. Why are people bashing the OP on an au pair topic?! If you don't understand au pairs then why come onntbe au pair section of mumsnet? It's silly..people saying you need to pay NMW are incorrect!

Loungewearfan - I'm on my phone so hopefully this will work. You need to register if you pay more than £116/week.

www.gov.uk/paye-for-employers

£110 is fine. You can't raise to £150 unless you register as an employer and file monthly returns to HMRC. I wouldn't go anywhere near phones either. You'd be better to offer to pay towards a language class (I haven't had an au pair who needed lessons for a while, but I usually bring the cost down to about £10/week)

I am confused by this, what is that statement based on?

‘Please note that, for 2017-18, UK income tax is payable on income over £11,500 per annum.
Families are responsible for ensuring income tax and National Insurance contributions are paid, if applicable.
Please check with the HMRC for further information on income tax and National Insurance thresholds (website www.gov.uk/government/’

OP remember - the thread has gone onto trending so lots of people who have absolutely no experience or even met an au pair before have posted. So you need to disregard at least half the posts.

£110 is fine. You can't raise to £150 unless you register as an employer and file monthly returns to HMRC. I wouldn't go anywhere near phones either. You'd be better to offer to pay towards a language class (I haven't had an au pair who needed lessons for a while, but I usually bring the cost down to about £10/week).

If you reduce the wording on your Au pair world profile, reduce the stay time to 6months+ and big up the floor to yourself and also "free local transport card" you'll be fine. I would also mention Manchester as being 3rd largest city in England/bars/nightclubs/close to several language
We also buy our au pairs a young person's railcard which gives them discounted travel on all the trains and I would consider giving them one of those as well.

You will have a stampede of offers of help if your application is attractive:

These are proven:

Offer language lessons/driving lessons
Offer for a couple ( you could pay them slightly less)
Split the role for 2 au pairs
Pay much more

I’m very familiar with au pairs and how it works. We had five across four years in Australia and NZ... but I was one of the five kids our au pairs had to manage. I stand by my earlier comment that the OP is underpaying. In short, it’s supply and demand and as many posters have pointed out, there’s a big demand but little supply so to differentiate themselves the OP will need to compete on benefits and pay because with four kids, they won’t be an attractive choice to any au pair

My gut feeling is you need to offer more £££ to counter the fact you have 4 DC which I suspect is the real reason you aren't getting any replies. How much would a nanny cost for the same hours?

Wow, lot of replies accusing me of being a modern day slave keeper!

Tbh I think that all au pairs are underpaid. One of my cousins uses au pairs and they have set days that they always will be free and they are allowed to do babysitting work or other jobs elsewhere in that time. Some like making more money so they can spend it travelling their last few months.

You've got quite a big ask there - do you need the full 30 hours? I'd say you ether need to cut the hours or up the pay. 4 kids for 30 hours a week is a bit above and beyond. I think au pair world's views in both hours and pay are very out of date. And yes, there has been a huge decline in candidates since Brexit. Don't forget counties like US and South Africa, lots of young people there with a British parent / passport who are keen to come and check the place out.

I think your asking way too much. My friends with au pairs pay them the same as you, but have fewer kids who are in school or nursery most ignored the time. They are expected to work fewer hours and they have time off in the week for language lessons. Their duties are mostly school runs, kids washing and after school care and dinner. It would be rare that the au pairs would be expected to do bedtime.

I think your comment about expecting them to always be working in that 30 hours, is telling. My friends treat their au pairs like friends of the family eg if the kids are out with the grandparents for the day then the au pair gets to do what they like- they aren’t handed a list of extra duties.

It would be interesting to know how many of the people who are saying it’s ‘slave labour’ have £100 pw, every week to spend on themselves?