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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

Has my au pair been resonable?

65 replies

Mongui · 28/12/2018 17:47

Hi! My husband and I decided to have an au pair to look after our 7 years old son and 4 years old daughter. They are both at school. We paid a very expensive agency to source a very good au pair. She is 33. She is a foreign qualified teacher with plenty of experience. She is polite, reserve and very good with the children. We pay her a very good salary (£200 per week). She works a maximum of 25 hours a week. Occasionally she does baby-sitting but not too often, at most once a week and very often, less than that. We have a cleaner who comes 3 times a week and, as it should be, our au pair doesn't clean the house. She doesn't even clean the children's or her own bedroom. The cleaner does everything. We pay taxes, we pay holidays. We are flexible (she needs certain flexibility due to personal circumstances on certain weeks she leaves early on Fridays and work less hours on Mondays). We are considered. We include her in our family plans. In short, we go the extra mile with her because we like her and because the children really like her. We also know she is a qualified teacher and her salary reflects any such qualification.
She is being with us for 4 months and we were very happy with everything. So was she.
However, a couple of days ago she had a funny reaction and I am not sure what to think . I was in the kitchen and suddenly I heard my au pair saying in a very laud and assertive way: "hey! do not hit me!!! You are not going to hit me? Did you hear what I say??!!". Immediately she came to the kitchen with my 4 years old daughter. My au pair was visibly agitated. She said that she needed to speak to me urgently because my daughter has hit her and that was totally unacceptable. I obviously talk to my daughter in a calm and constructive fashion. I told her (in front of my au pair) that she should not hit our au pair. My daughter was very embarrassed. She is a very gentle and very considered little girl. But she is only 4. I don't know why she hit my au pair. Sometimes children do these things and it doesn't mean they are aggressive or that they don't like the person. But she is certainly not aggressive and it was the first time this has happened with my au pair.
My au pair was visibly unhappy. I asked her to forgive my daughter and in a gentle way, and to close the issue, I said: "let's be kind and gentle with each other".
I thought that would be the end of it. But a few days later, I was working from home and my au pair came to my office and, knocking the door, she said it was urgent. I thought it was something rather serious. But she said that my daughter has hit her again and that this is a red line for her, that nobody ever in her life has hit her and that she was not going to put up with any such rude behaviour, that there were limits and that this was a red line for her. She also said that she didn't like the way she sometimes looked at her, in a defiant way, which was disrespectful.
My daughter was next to her, again looking very embarrassed. I talk to her again, calmly and told her this wasn't acceptable. I promise I did my absolute best to ensure my au pair got the reassurance that this was not acceptable for me and that my daughter understood she should not behave in this way.
They both left my office, my daughter apologised to my au pair, my au pair looking rather grumpy and visibly annoyed.
As soon as they left the room where I was working, I thought that my au 33 years old pair, with 10 years of experience in primary education, who gets remunerated accordingly, who enjoys plenty of flexibility with us, who doesn't lift a finger in the house, who we include and pay in all our plans, which I found not just in a random website, but in a proper agency who charged me £1,800 to source her, was not behaving reasonably. To be totally fair to her, I would be annoyed if a 4 years old hit me. I think she was right to bring the issue to my attention. But to do it in the aggressive way she did it, I don't think it was the standards I was expecting from her.
I took a deep breath and after an hour or so, I went to speak to my au pair, very calmly, on a one to one basis. I first told her I was sorry about my daughter's behaviour. But I also told her she was just 4... My au pair was, again, very agitated and did not let me speak. She reiterated that I should know that nobody has ever hit her, that this was rather rude and that she wasn't going to stay with us with a child hitting her. She reiterated the fact that the way she looks at her sometimes is defiant, which she doesn't like. I told her that, although I understood her frustration, I would have thought that for someone of her age and experience, she would address the issue in a more mature fashion. I told her that, as much I would like it, I could not guarantee that my 4 years old daughter would not hit her again. She replied saying that she would then need to think about it.
In that moment my children appear in scene and we finished the conversation.
In short, there is a part of me that understands my au pair. Yes, it is very annoying, that is for sure. I am grateful she brought the issue to my attention. But my daughter is a very caring, good nature little girl and she is very affectionate to my au pair. My daughter is very small and thin. When my au pair says "she hits me" it wasn't anything that could hurt her. This is not to justify my daughter's behaviour but to set the scene.
I think it is not very reasonable or in fact mature of a 33 years old woman of her level of experience to kick a fuss and give me an ultimatum. Firstly, I can't promise it will not happen again. Secondly, it is really not the way to address the issue. But crucially, is this not a symptom that for whatever reason she wants to find a way out of the family and she is just trying to find an excuse? She knows when I hired her that it was extremely important for us to commit to a year of service. In fact, she told me the same applied to her.
I feel very sad for my daughter. I feel as though my au pair may not like her that much after all.
Am I overreacting? Is my au pair being reasonable?

OP posts:
Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
myrtleWilson · 29/12/2018 18:01

So you put the issue of hitting on the Au Pair as far as your DD is concerned? Not "we don't hit" "Mommy does not like it when you hit" but "the au pair will leave" - not exactly stepping up to the plate there are you?

Mongui · 29/12/2018 17:55

Perroy, you are right and this is what it doesn't stuck up. My husband and I asked my daughter why she did that. She said she didn't know, that she didn't want to hurt her that she was playing... of course we said that hitting is not playing and that if she continues like this the au pair will leave and she then looked very sad and concerned.
Another thing we did was to ask my son, he is 7 and in one of the two occasions this has happened he was present. He told me that he didn't even realise that my daughter has hit our au pair. This is not to suggest our au pair is making it up by any means...
My concern here is that my instinct tells me something is wrong with our au pair. Depression? Anxiety? I don't know... And I would like to support her. She doesn't have a family and i would like to be a family for her. She has a complicated family story back home and came to England "running away" from her own situation back home. I reiterate, she really is lovely and sweet. And smart. But the debate I have is that I have put together some of the things and comments she has made about my daughter and I am unfortunately beginning to wonder whether she likes her.
It is so difficult to explain in a short post but when the hitting incident happened, I had a very strong feeling that there is something here... I don't know what and I can't ask her to leave based on a feeling. In fact, the opposite. I want this to work. I want to help her and support her. But, am I being blind here?
Sorry about going on. The issue concerns me. In fact this is my first ever post in Mumsnet...
thanks lovely people..

OP posts:
namechangedtoday15 · 29/12/2018 17:44

Complete drip feed.

perroy · 29/12/2018 16:45

Why have you not asked your daughter why she is hitting. I would be very concerned if my otherwise considerate and gentle child started showing a different pattern of behaviour.

colditz · 29/12/2018 14:05

No, I'm not "trying to be funny", you have posted about your Au Pair and then, once you have answers, you've THEN posted a load of relevant details about why you're right and everyone who doesn't agree with you is wrong.

It's called " a massive drip feed" as you've kept us on an information diet
until you've got the answers you want, and is poor form.

If you perceive being called out for ridiculous bullshit as rude, you're going to find this website rude, and probably is the reason you're disliking your poor Au Pair right now.

Mongui · 29/12/2018 13:01

Colditz, are you trying to be funny? Because you are not.
Anyway, to all the lovely people who has expressed their views, thank you very much. Some of the things you have said have made me think and I will take some of the advice onboard.
As for you Colditz, may be you can refine your sense of humour and post something funny rather than rude next time you post something on Mumsnet.

OP posts:
colditz · 29/12/2018 12:03

oh I do so love a massive drip feed

Mongui · 28/12/2018 23:33

Thanks lovely mothers. Why is she an au pair at the age of 33 and not a nanny? Good question and one we discussed with her at the interview and also with the agency.
My au pair arrived to England last summer with a firm intention to have an easy job as an an au pair for a year and live with a family for a year. She very intentionally wanted to be an au pair for a year because she needed a break from intense teaching at her country and because she would like to settle in England. In fact we already discussed that if she would like to work as a nanny next year for us we would be opened to it as she is keen.
She is a lovely person but I sensed that after 10 years in the classrooms she was bordering a depression and needed a break. In addition her boyfriend left her just went they were about to get married.
So this explains why she has deliberately chosen to be an au pair for a year.
She is definitely a teacher. The agency checked her credentials and I can tell she is a teacher.
She has always told me she is very happy with us. And so we are with her. But I suspect she has suffered from depression in the past. I know for a fact her sister suffers from depression. There are days she is super happy. And great with the children. She really is. But there are other days that she hardly leaves the house. In fact, many. I am concerned that this reaction may be indicative of something probably more complex.
A few weeks ago she told me that my daughter's teacher talk to her to say that my daughter's behaviour in the last few weeks in the classroom has been really bad, that she doesn't listen and that she can be difficult.
I was very concerned and I arranged to see her teacher. To my total surprise the teacher didn't even know what I was talking about when I first informed her of the message delivered by my au pair. When she finally remembered, she told me there was nothing to be worried about, that she has observed that my daughter was tired but that was the case with most of them because it was the end of the term. She told me how lovely she was and how much she enjoys school and reassured me there were not behaviour issues with her.
I forgot about it and was pleased with the news. But now that I think about it, my au pair delivered a very negative message and clearly told me the teachers were not happy with her behaviour.
The teacher told me a complete different story.
It is hard to believe that my sweet, reserved, polite au pair has targeted my daughter. Or is she depressed? I really don't know what to think.
I do like her by the way. I feel a duty of care towards her. But this is odd..

OP posts:
MiniMum97 · 28/12/2018 21:46

She sounds weird. I'd get rid.

Anyone looking after a child needs to be able to discipline them appropriately imo. I would expect someone with teaching experience to be able to do this. It's a very weird reaction for her to be so personally offended by a child hitting. Children do hit until they are told not to, repeatedly. It takes a while of reinforcement usually which is why I expect you can't guarantee that she won't hit again! And the defiant look thing is just bizarre. What child isn't defiant at times! Are you sure she has definitely worked with children before? Why is she being an au pair and not teaching?

namechangedtoday15 · 28/12/2018 21:13

It's a bit pointless saying shes 33 and that's too old to be an au pair. The OP hired her knowing she was 33.

MadeForThis · 28/12/2018 20:55

Being an Au Pair at 33 is strange.

Maybe she is because she can't cop with being a mainstream teacher. Maybe due to reactions like this.

Hitting isn't acceptable. But dd is 4. She's acting as if she's abusive.

Mummyshark2018 · 28/12/2018 20:36

@MyPoodleisWorthTenofYou
Obviously, Nobody should be hit, but tbf nursery workers get a lot more and for a lot less money /benefits (for 25 hours a week).

Mummyshark2018 · 28/12/2018 20:33

Is the hitting new? I'm just wondering if you're at home and she wants your and not au pairs attention? What have you discussed with au pair about discipline? Does she feel that there are blurred lines and she can't enforce anything? Either way I agree that how she reacted seems a bit immature and inexperienced.

MyPoodleisWorthTenofYou · 28/12/2018 20:30

I wouldn’t be happy having to let a child hit me for £200 a week either Hmm

namechangedtoday15 · 28/12/2018 20:01

You say you dealt with the hitting "firmly" but you didnt. You say in your first post that you told her not to hit and to be gentle. That's not "firm". So she did it again and you accept that shes likely to do it again.

You're expecting nanny-like experience (disciplining a child, developing that relationship etc) whilst paying an au pair wage.

Agree that you need to let the au pair go but in answer to you question, yes shes been reasonable in saying she cant continue with your DD's behaviour. If your DD continues to hit, then I anticipate you'll have problems with future au pairs too.

Sarahandduck18 · 28/12/2018 19:47

33yo AP sounds very odd!

Dollymixture22 · 28/12/2018 19:37

your Daughter does have to learn that hitting is unacceptable. When she is in school she cannot hit her classmates or teachers, and when she is at home she cannot got her family. However, I agree that a care giver should be able to discipline your daughter and handle this kind of behaviour. It is not that unusual for a child of this age - surley time on the naughty step or some similar demerit system would be appropriate.

I think there may be a reason this lady isn’t a teacher (if she ever was!).

BrightStarrySky · 28/12/2018 19:35

I think it’s weird that the au pair kept mentioning the way the OP’s daughter looks at her. There is no way of being certain but that doesn’t seem like a normal thing to say or feel about a young child... The au pair also seems to be taking it all very personally.

OhioOhioOhio · 28/12/2018 19:26

Yeah, her salary is not great. Especially if she is a qualified teacher but like the first poster said, nobody has to be wrong. It just wont work.

MyPoodleisWorthTenofYou · 28/12/2018 19:22

The average for an au pair is £120 a week because they’re usually very young and it’s a cultural/language opportunity for them prior to embarking on a job or career. At 33 and a qualified teacher I’m confused as to why she’s simply an au pair.

I personally don’t think she’s done much wrong unless there’s a huge backstory but you’re debating whether or not you trust someone you regularly put in charge of your children. Do you not think that’s a bit odd?

Mongui · 28/12/2018 19:10

Thanks for all your messages. Btw, a £200 a week for an au pair is definitely a generous salary. The average is £120 a week. She is an au pair, not a nanny. She lives with us and everything is covered for: accommodation, food, bills etc. She is also treated as a member of the family, as it should be with an au pair. So on that front, I am confident that we are generous with our au pair and we do it because she deserves it and because we like her to feel appreciated.
My concern is that her reaction was probably indicative of what she really feels. I believe it was an odd reaction and my concern is whether there may be something behind the scenes I am not seeing. My daughter tells me she loves her. And I am so glad about it. She kisses her, she tells her all the time how much she loves her etc. It is precisely for that reason that her reaction took me totally by surprise, her anger when she repeatedly said that nobody has ever hit her and that she didn't like the way my daughter looks at her. I must say a chilling feeling run my body when she said that. It is difficult to explain. It was her face, her body language.
And by the way, of course I have disciplined my daughter, firmly.
I should say that the next day I felt my au pair was probably a bit embarrassed. She kept quiet and discrete and I decided to not raise the subject again, give her the benefit of the doubt and hope that this will not happen again.
But on the other hand, something, and I can't quite put the finger on what it is, was rather odd...
can I trust her?

OP posts:
Polly99 · 28/12/2018 18:34

I’d let her go.

Either the au pair is not a good fit for your family and you need someone who can deal
appropriately with a 4 year old who hits, or , if hitting is out of character for your child, I’d be concerned that she is playing the au pair up because they are not really bonding for whatever reason.

cstaff · 28/12/2018 18:29

She obviously doesn't want to work there for whatever reason. Your daughter doesn't seem to be happy with her so just let her go.

llangennith · 28/12/2018 18:28

It does sound as though your au pair doesn't like your DD. Also as she is much older and has been a teacher she may be in bossy teacher mode all the time with your DD who actually needs looking after, not being told off all the time.
Get rid of the au pair and get a younger and more suitable person to care for your DC.

zebra · 28/12/2018 18:23

Four years olds behave inappropriately. Your au pair is majorly over reacting. Like you've suggested I think there's probably more to this.

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