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Original poster

Has my au pair been resonable?

65 replies

Mongui · 28/12/2018 17:47

Hi! My husband and I decided to have an au pair to look after our 7 years old son and 4 years old daughter. They are both at school. We paid a very expensive agency to source a very good au pair. She is 33. She is a foreign qualified teacher with plenty of experience. She is polite, reserve and very good with the children. We pay her a very good salary (£200 per week). She works a maximum of 25 hours a week. Occasionally she does baby-sitting but not too often, at most once a week and very often, less than that. We have a cleaner who comes 3 times a week and, as it should be, our au pair doesn't clean the house. She doesn't even clean the children's or her own bedroom. The cleaner does everything. We pay taxes, we pay holidays. We are flexible (she needs certain flexibility due to personal circumstances on certain weeks she leaves early on Fridays and work less hours on Mondays). We are considered. We include her in our family plans. In short, we go the extra mile with her because we like her and because the children really like her. We also know she is a qualified teacher and her salary reflects any such qualification.
She is being with us for 4 months and we were very happy with everything. So was she.
However, a couple of days ago she had a funny reaction and I am not sure what to think . I was in the kitchen and suddenly I heard my au pair saying in a very laud and assertive way: "hey! do not hit me!!! You are not going to hit me? Did you hear what I say??!!". Immediately she came to the kitchen with my 4 years old daughter. My au pair was visibly agitated. She said that she needed to speak to me urgently because my daughter has hit her and that was totally unacceptable. I obviously talk to my daughter in a calm and constructive fashion. I told her (in front of my au pair) that she should not hit our au pair. My daughter was very embarrassed. She is a very gentle and very considered little girl. But she is only 4. I don't know why she hit my au pair. Sometimes children do these things and it doesn't mean they are aggressive or that they don't like the person. But she is certainly not aggressive and it was the first time this has happened with my au pair.
My au pair was visibly unhappy. I asked her to forgive my daughter and in a gentle way, and to close the issue, I said: "let's be kind and gentle with each other".
I thought that would be the end of it. But a few days later, I was working from home and my au pair came to my office and, knocking the door, she said it was urgent. I thought it was something rather serious. But she said that my daughter has hit her again and that this is a red line for her, that nobody ever in her life has hit her and that she was not going to put up with any such rude behaviour, that there were limits and that this was a red line for her. She also said that she didn't like the way she sometimes looked at her, in a defiant way, which was disrespectful.
My daughter was next to her, again looking very embarrassed. I talk to her again, calmly and told her this wasn't acceptable. I promise I did my absolute best to ensure my au pair got the reassurance that this was not acceptable for me and that my daughter understood she should not behave in this way.
They both left my office, my daughter apologised to my au pair, my au pair looking rather grumpy and visibly annoyed.
As soon as they left the room where I was working, I thought that my au 33 years old pair, with 10 years of experience in primary education, who gets remunerated accordingly, who enjoys plenty of flexibility with us, who doesn't lift a finger in the house, who we include and pay in all our plans, which I found not just in a random website, but in a proper agency who charged me £1,800 to source her, was not behaving reasonably. To be totally fair to her, I would be annoyed if a 4 years old hit me. I think she was right to bring the issue to my attention. But to do it in the aggressive way she did it, I don't think it was the standards I was expecting from her.
I took a deep breath and after an hour or so, I went to speak to my au pair, very calmly, on a one to one basis. I first told her I was sorry about my daughter's behaviour. But I also told her she was just 4... My au pair was, again, very agitated and did not let me speak. She reiterated that I should know that nobody has ever hit her, that this was rather rude and that she wasn't going to stay with us with a child hitting her. She reiterated the fact that the way she looks at her sometimes is defiant, which she doesn't like. I told her that, although I understood her frustration, I would have thought that for someone of her age and experience, she would address the issue in a more mature fashion. I told her that, as much I would like it, I could not guarantee that my 4 years old daughter would not hit her again. She replied saying that she would then need to think about it.
In that moment my children appear in scene and we finished the conversation.
In short, there is a part of me that understands my au pair. Yes, it is very annoying, that is for sure. I am grateful she brought the issue to my attention. But my daughter is a very caring, good nature little girl and she is very affectionate to my au pair. My daughter is very small and thin. When my au pair says "she hits me" it wasn't anything that could hurt her. This is not to justify my daughter's behaviour but to set the scene.
I think it is not very reasonable or in fact mature of a 33 years old woman of her level of experience to kick a fuss and give me an ultimatum. Firstly, I can't promise it will not happen again. Secondly, it is really not the way to address the issue. But crucially, is this not a symptom that for whatever reason she wants to find a way out of the family and she is just trying to find an excuse? She knows when I hired her that it was extremely important for us to commit to a year of service. In fact, she told me the same applied to her.
I feel very sad for my daughter. I feel as though my au pair may not like her that much after all.
Am I overreacting? Is my au pair being reasonable?

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hibbledibble · 03/02/2019 08:32

I've read all of this and it is probably a good thing the au pair left, as she, not unreasonably, did not want to be hit.

I do however disagree with posters that is normal for a four year old to hit. My 3 year old has never hit anyone. My older child never hit anyone at this age either.

A toddler might hit, but a 3 or 4 year old child? That is old enough to know better, and as a parent I would be very concerned.

Op have you considered doing a parenting course, in order to be able to better manage your child's behaviour? I mean this in a kind way.

llangennith · 23/01/2019 10:28

Thanks for the update OP. She really wasn't a good person to be looking after your DC. Sounds like she took her loneliness and depression out on your little girl. Hope the new au pair is better with your children as their welfare and happiness are the most important things

Original poster
Mongui · 21/01/2019 14:12

Lovely people,
A quick message to say our au pair has resigned and will be leaving our family in 4 weeks. She said that she is depressed mostly because she has not managed to make friends. I suspect she is taking medication, but I didn't say anything. It will be sad to see her leaving but I understand her. Being an au pair is meant to be fun and my friends' au pairs all socialise and get to know many people. But ours wasn't really in the frame of mind. She said that her decision to leave has nothing to do with us as a family, that she really likes us and that she will miss us. That made me feel better.
I have lined up another really lovely au pair. This time a more typical one, much younger, to start with. And I have also stayed away from expensive agencies. I truly hope our new au pair will stay for at least 6 months if not more. Not sure I can subject my children to a constant flow of au pairs!
Thanks everybody for all your useful advice.

OP posts:
Gina2012 · 12/01/2019 13:44

I must be a very bad communicator

I agree. You are a bad communicator

Get rid of the Au Pair

She's not working out

End of

StarlightIntheNight · 12/01/2019 13:36

and btw everyone i knew that used an agency has been unhappy with their au pair. people have better luck finding their own au pair. Check out aupairworld.com

StarlightIntheNight · 12/01/2019 13:35

I would let the au pair god. She is OTT. Seriously. She is getting 200 to be an au pair? That is a lot more then what people pay in my area. The au pairs I know are getting 90-100 a week! Also, I would questions why at 33 she is an au pair? I would go for someone early 20s, who perhaps has more patience for kids. My last au pair was 20 and amazing. My son would have the odd tantrum and hit her once or twice (not hard at all, but when he had a tantrum). He was 4 at the time and the au pair handled it fine. She just said no hitting and that was that. She still works for us sometimes, but now lives out. My kids love her and she is very good with them. Patience is key.

Nativityriot · 12/01/2019 08:54

I don’t think you should keep the au pair, potentially incredibly damaging to your daughter if your suspicions are right.

We’ve successfully hosted a few au pairs and have had a couple of amazing ones who could have been nannies and got nannying jobs in a heartbeat. But they didn’t want to, they wanted a break from real life and to travel, but to live with a family and not have too much responsibility (either with the kids or their own bills and housekeeping) and lots of time off to hang out. It’s not uncommon tbh.

Honeyroar · 31/12/2018 17:56

I think you sound like you’ve had a good think about everything and talked it through with your husband. I think having a good, honest chat with the au pair is the way forward.

I stayed in touch with most of the families that I au paired for for 15+years, I loved them, but it doesn’t mean we always agreed on everything while I was there.

llangennith · 31/12/2018 13:11

I can't believe you're going to keep the au pair! Too much effort required by you to find a nice one?

Original poster
Mongui · 31/12/2018 11:07

Kenandbarbie, incredible that your au pair lasted for 3 years! You must be a very good, caring and loving family. That is for sure. 👏👏

OP posts:
Original poster
Mongui · 31/12/2018 11:01

Yes, I told my husband that if we have to find another au pair, there is no way I am paying a fancy agency. There is no need, clearly. We will go for a standard au pair arrangement (younger person etc, etc, etc...). But before that, let's see and hope this one will work. Smile.

OP posts:
kenandbarbie · 31/12/2018 10:30

Er what? If she's that well qualified and good at childcare her relationship with your dd should never have got to the stage where she hit her. Your responsibility is to your dd. Get rid of the au pair - she prefers older children and has a confrontational relationship with your dd, that does not sound good for your dd.

Our last au pair was with us for 3 years, loved the kids, they loved her, was part of the family. But she had to go and get on with her own life. Being an au pair is not a job and clearly in your relationship both parties are treating it like a job. You don't need a fancy agency and a supposedly good wage, you need to find someone who gels with your family.

Original poster
Mongui · 31/12/2018 10:20

Thank you everyone. I have read all your responses in detail, needless to say some of them were hard to read but I posted in Mumsnet with a view to obtain a democratic point of view and therefore I have taken them all into consideration. No matter what you said.
Clearly, I do need to be firmer with my 4 years old daughter. Perhaps I wasn't as much as I should have been. But judging by your responses, the fact she is 4 cannot be ignored.She does need more care and love from my au pair, who, to her own admission, prefers older children (like my son). So maybe that is something I didn't think about previously....
Another recurrent theme is that this is not a real au pair arrangement because of the age and level of education of our au pair. To be clear, she is not expected to do a nanny's job. I used to have a live out nanny and she was with us for 3 and half years. She left the country after that time and we decided to give a go to an au pair. But we have not had an au pair previously. My nanny (who obviously liked us and got on with our children, otherwise she wouldn't have worked for us for 3 and a half years!) did far more than our au pair and she was expected to do more than our au pair. She didn't live with us. She did not expect to be treated as a member of the family. In short, an au pair is a complete different arrangement to a nanny. I do have to say that my au pair does actually get paid generously. Even the agency who sourced her told me that paying £200 a week for an au pair (I reiterate, she is an au pair, she is expected to do the job of an au pair, not a nanny....) was too much. The agency told me that this is what our au pair was proposing but we could push back. But we didn't. We wanted to be generous. May au pair subsequently admitted that we were the only family who offered to pay the salary she asked for.
As per NI and taxes, this is quite matter of fact. At that level it triggers taxes and NI. HMRC told me. And so we pay NI and taxes as it is our legal obligation to do so.
A great proportion of you think I should let go. Probably. But a part of me is telling me that this would be unfair on our au pair. I think she would feel rejected and lost. She is very sensitive. And if I suspect there may be some mental health issue, I would be discriminating her if I were to ask her to go.
My au pair is on holidays at the moment. As my husband put it, perhaps she was sensitive, perhaps she was homesick, missing her family and friends over the Christmas period. Perhaps she was remembering that her ex boyfriend broke up with her last Christmas. And perhaps that is why she took it so personally.
When she gets back, I will speak to her to reassure her that we have spoken to my daughter and to agree what disciplinary steps she should take if it happens again, which obviously I hope no. But I would not be honest with her if I say it won't definitely happen again. It is not in my control. What it is in my control is to discipline my daughter.
I also think that my au pair is a good person. Probably a complex one, with a complicated history. Perhaps this won't happen again if we all come to the table: my daughter is firmly disciplined and my au pair understands that she is just 4.
And by the way, in my au pair absence, my children are constantly talking about her in a positive way. So I am keeping my fingers crossed that it will work. The will is there.

OP posts:
INeedNewShoes · 30/12/2018 11:59

I actually do think that £200 a week is a good salary assuming that all board and lodgings is also provided. It's well above typical au pair wages.

OP, I think that you should take your DD hitting more seriously.

When I was an au pair I spoke very firmly to the 3 year old I was caring for when she hit me. It's just not acceptable behaviour and won't be tolerated outside the home so children need to be in no doubt that it's not acceptable.

underneaththeash · 30/12/2018 11:52

I'm not sure why some PP think that she's not doing an au pair role, the hours/responsibilities are fairly normal for an au pair and her pocket money is generous. We pay £116/week and our au pair has more than most of her au pair friends.

And yes, over £116/week you need a register as an employer and pay NI and possibly tax later on in their stay.

We also tend have older au pairs who often come and spend a year with us before settling in the UK, however, I also think 33 is a bit old and she's unlikely to form many friendships with other au pairs. Our oldest has been 27 and she was too old. I find they have a better time and consequently more settled with us if they are around 22-25.

Back to your DD, although your au pair has been a teacher, it doesn't mean that she knows how to neccesarily deal with all situations as a nanny would. Your DD has clearly found that hitting gets a big reaction and therefore attention. You need tell your au pair that your DD will not hurt her, but she needs to just completely ignore it and I reckon that will just stop the behaviour. Alternatively if she does hit your au pair could say that oh yes, we were going to do something fun, but now as you've hit me we can't.

Incidentally, if it doesn't work out, just use aupairworld - agencies are often next to useless when it comes to au pairs and generally don't sort out issues when they arise.

mumsastudent · 29/12/2018 23:09

one thing that did happen from time to time when I told dc off was they might say "I am telling mum" to which I replied "not before me -do you want me to ring her now?" (calling bluff)

mumsastudent · 29/12/2018 23:07

strange woman - if I were looking after your dc I might talk to you about the hit but only to discuss with you how I/we should approach how we jointly deal with it - as for defiant looks for crying out loud the kid is 4 not 14!

TheNewYear · 29/12/2018 22:55

Whether you’ve employed this woman as an au pair or not, the fact remains she really isn’t one considering her age and experience and it’s not working out with your DD. If your DD hitting is a new thing, then I agree you need to look into the reason behind it and I don’t think your au pair is in the wrong to want a job where she is not hit - especially since, whatever you might think to the contrary, she is not well paid and does not have good perks currently.

blueshoes · 29/12/2018 22:34

Aupairs who take up the role to run away from something in their personal situation often don't work out because something will spill over when living under someone else's roof doing childcare, which is a disorientating and intense experience.

All my aupairs who have suspected or admitted mental health issues went back or left after maximum 4 months. In your aupair's case, it seems to be exacerbated by the fact that a teaching role is formal (usually with older children that are required to listen) and your dd is 4 (and really only just needs cuddles and care).

There is something odd about what this aupair says (negative) which is inconsistent with others' usual behaviour (your dd and teacher's perception). Whatever is going on, you don't want her to be looking after your dd.

I would probably try to move her on soon. You don't need to pay so much to an agency to find an aupair. Try to avoid over-qualified aupairs. I used to use the aupairworld website. It is a bit of hit and miss so best not to focus too much on any particular candidate or getting it right on the first try. Hopefully, you can find someone more outgoing who will get a lot of benefit from living with a family and going out and exploring a different country. You should not have any problem as you are paying well above market for easy hours and no housework.

Original poster
Mongui · 29/12/2018 21:56

Middleeasternpromise, spot on. I don't think is my fault, my 4 years old daughter or my au pair. It is simply not working.
Yes she is an unusual type of au pair, but we were honest with each other. She took the job because she wanted to be an au pair and we offer her the job being aware she was 33 and needed a degree of flexibility. Anyway all parties acted in good faith and if it doesn't work no hard feelings but probably best for all to find alternative arrangements.
Thanks to those in this post who has given me constructive and useful advice.
END

OP posts:
middleeasternpromise · 29/12/2018 21:04

Oh dear o dear - an au pair who is not an au pair; a child behaving apparently out of character with no one else experiencing the same issues?

What ever you are paying this lady this is not a true au pair arrangement. The au pair scheme was about families offering a host accommodation arrangement to younger people who want to learn a language and experience the culture of a new country. They are usually moving from living with their own family and therefore in need of the support and help living away from home which a host family can offer - in return for living as part of the family food, bills etc they offer a limited amount of help in the home either in the form of supervising older children for a few hours at a time or pet care/ sometimes light household help. From what you say you have upped the money and took an adult in who really wouldn't be suited to the au pair scheme. When you bring in someone who has previously been an independent career level person - this will feel like a very stifling arrangement living in someones family home at their beck and call. You may well be bending over backwards to not make her feel like that but none the less if she sometimes 'hardly leaves the house' and only has the children to look after before and after school its no wonder you are starting to wonder how this is a working arrangement. All my au pairs were desperate to be out socializing as soon as I was home, some of them I never saw from Friday evening till the early hours of monday morning (and good for them I say).

Your au pair sounds like shes experiencing gilded cage syndrome and your daughter is somehow not connecting with her or in fact over connecting to her but either way its not working. At that age she isn't going to offer a big sister/play mate relationship especially where shes held the role of a teacher before and will have an expectation of how children should and shouldn't interact with her. I agree with others - this isn't possibly anyone's fault as such but just a mismatch of needs and goals. Why did you want someone so different from the usual au pair profile?

As for your interest in the woman's mental health and difficult personal life experiences - I think you might want to be very careful about how much 'you want to help' Au pair arrangements are complex enough to make work at the best of times without the whole set up being complicated with you supporting a 30 year old woman with her depression and relationship break ups. Would you not be better off with a local live out option? you say you don't need lots of night time baby sitting so I just wonder why you have opted for a live in arrangement at all?

Good luck with it.

llangennith · 29/12/2018 20:58

OP. you should be looking for the best solution for YOUR CHILD not the best solution for everyone. Send the au pair packing now.

PurpleNailVarnish · 29/12/2018 19:52

This is not to suggest our au pair is making it up by any means...

This reads as that's exactly what you're suggesting Mongui and I wonder whether that's why you didn't adequately discipline your DD for hitting the first time.

Nobody deserves to be hit in the course of their work. In some jobs there's an expectation that employees might be assaulted ie psychiatric nurse or police officer but it's still not acceptable. An Au Pair might be hit by a child, it's not nice but it's not unexpected either. Twice demonstrates that any action you took to curtail this the first time didn't work.

Your Au Pair may be fed up because she thinks she hasn't been believed.

She may be homesick yes, even at the age of 33

She may be worrying about her complex situation back home. If she's come here to be an Au Pair to get away from her home situation it may be that she's found as many do that you can run away but you still take your problems with you. Rather than being depressed she may be processing the events from back home.

It may be that she was a teacher in a country where children are expected to sit quietly and poor behaviour, even minor poor behaviour, isn't tolerated. A teacher coming out to talk to the person collecting a child could be a big deal in her home country so she misinterpreted the significance, many countries don't have the same parent/teacher interaction that we do here.

Having been a teacher doesn't guarantee that someone will be a good Au Pair, it's a very different career and dynamic.

You must listen to your DD as you have been, hitting someone once isn't ok, but it happens. Twice is unacceptable.

Also listen to your Au Pair. There are lots of possible reasons for her actions, hence all of the 'maybes' in this post. If she isn't a fit for your family the kindest thing all round is to find someone else.

Honeyroar · 29/12/2018 19:32

So your au pair is upset because your daughter is biting her, but you're gently doing very little about it and now trying to blame your au pair's mental health rather than facing up to facts that your daughter is misbehaving. I was an au pair. Sometimes I think that I had a much more balanced view of the children than the parents. One little boy used to hit and swear. His mother made excuses for him all the time.

Original poster
Mongui · 29/12/2018 19:03

I must be a very bad communicator because this is not at all the point I am trying to make. I tried to say that we talk to our daughter and tried to tell her that she should not hit the au pair in the best possible way we could or know.
But what I am trying to say (may be not successfully) that beyond the incident, there is something here, with our au pair, which is not quite right. I tried to say that it feels as though she may have problems, and my concern here is to find the best possible solution for all.

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