Rules?

Gosh. Nobody is "stalking" you. I simply read your post on the other thread, because I was catching up on a thread that I had already posted on the day before you did. I don’t even know (or need to know) how to find people’s posting history. But your reasons for indiscriminate CM-bashing are pretty clear.

On it, you say "I did work for the same company that ran the nursery". I’d have thought the average literate adult would take that to mean you were an employee.

I see absolutely no connection between the situation you are in and that of the McCann family. Sadly, this isn’t the first time that particular tragedy has been dragged into a thread in a sick attempt to add emotive weight to somebody’s argument about their own personal minor fussy. I doubt it will be the last.

It’s pretty "spiteful" to be so determined to launch a complaint against another families' childminder. You had the answer to your question several times over, and suggestions of far less damaging ways in which you could contribute positively to the situation. Instead, you seem determined to pursue a course of action which could leave several families with no childcare, as well as wasting Ofsted’s resources. (I do hope people who rush to initiate expensive Ofsted investigations never complain about lack of public money available for more useful educational purposes.)

I agree this thread seems to have run its course, and am tired of arguing about arguing. Despite the good advice of all the of contributors here, nobody has been able to make you consider a more reasonable course of action. You’ve been determined to make that vindictive complaint from day one, and we’ve all been wasting our time thinking otherwise.

Excellent! Thanks itsboojum for joining the dots for me, I knew something was fishy! Of course 🤦‍♀️

Everyone has been quite clear that the CM has broken a basic rule. Nobody is denying or trying to defend that. She absolutely must correct this, but there are better ways to achieve this than by a complaint from someone outside the situation. As has already been suggested, the best next step would be to tell the parents of the children concerned and let them make an informed decision on how to proceed.

But the idea of an increased risk of abduction is pure dramatic fantasy. The OP knows the children are being safeguarded by the caretaker who, in order to work there, will be a reliable and suitable person with all the necessary checks made. Yes, it’s still a breach of regulations, but it’s not a significant safeguarding risk in real life.

So it’s perfectly reasonable to question why the OP is so eager to report the CM, with whom she has absolutely no connection, for a breach of the rules whilst at the same time defending her own child's school which appears to exercise no control over who can access the entire school.

Moreover, she seems determined to pursue a complaint regardless of the possibility that it could result in leaving other families with a sudden and complete lack of childcare.

However, there really is no need for the OP to respond, as she has already answered the question of motivation, today on another thread, in which she admits, in her own words to being "a bit of a control freak". It is clear she has had one bad experience with one childminder, which is a real shame. She also has a vested interest as the erstwhile employee of a nursery company. She seems quite set upon putting others off using any childminder's services, and disrupting this particular CM's business, irrespective of the effect that might have on other families.

I can only agree with Jannier.

The OP seems very eager to find cause for a complaint against the CM, regardless of the consequences for the families she is helping, rather than seek a solution. Holding a CM to account is one thing, but it doesn’t add up when it lacks any sense of holding the school to account too.

You can’t help wondering what the motivation or hidden agenda might be. It certainly doesn’t look like altruism nor child welfare.

sports days are outside, shows are in one hall with controlled access, Ofsted wouldn't necessarily know the arrangements for dismissal. The grading is irrelevant the school has a duty to work with other settings not obstruct them.
You seem very protective of the school and closed to suggested solutions which you could put forward to the parent/cm/school if you noticed a problem. Is this more about fixing a possible danger or reporting a childminder? The outcome of a complaint would be for the cm to risk assess and propose a solution and then to action it why not bypass that give her the chance to improve and then if things don't change do more? Or is there an after school club lurking in the setting up process? sometimes schools make it difficult to increase their business.

Thank you for replying.

To reiterate, as an Ofsted registered childcare provider she should not be doing this. To be entirely accurate (hope this isn’t splitting hairs) she in breach of the EYFS regulations, rather than it being strictly "illegal".

You could complain directly to Ofsted. As you don’t have a child in her care, it’s not certain how they’d respond. They are likely to either get their compliance team to 'phone her, or else log it as a question to ask at her next routine inspection.

It might be best to inform the parent of the child concerned, since you know them. Perhaps the complaint would be better coming from them. The normal procedure would then be for the parent to discuss the matter with the CM in an attempt to reach a suitable arrangement. Failing that, the parent would use the CM's published complaints procedure, and then escalate that complaint to Ofsted if the CM still didn’t provide a satisfactory resolution. Ofsted will rarely do much unless and until the childcare provider's own complaints procedure has been exhausted (unless there is actual abuse taking place or a serious and immediate risk of harm.)

Do bear in mind the possible consequences. The CM may well decide that she cannot fulfil the regulatory requirements whilst continuing to work with this school and younger children. The result of that will be some families suddenly being left without childcare, or losing the continuity of having the same childminder throughout their childrens' preschool and school years. That’s a really big impact and would affect the parent you know personally. There’s no way of telling whether any of the families affected by these changes would thank you for it.

Other comments made about the school are valid and relevant to the situation, even if not directly relevant to your question. They do have a duty to enable other education/childcare providers to support children , and should be working with them in partnership, not putting obstacles in their way. Without going into too much detail on your pp, the issue of controlled access to the school is just as much a safeguarding issue as a caretaker being left to watch a buggy. Events on a sports field or school hall are somewhat different from having adults all over the entire building, and would be covered by an entirely different risk assessment.

Twogirlsonelabrador - just because its other parents inside the school does not mean they are suitable parents to be wondering around and possibly in close contact with children or that they are only parents with permission and not ones who have orders against them. Even people up to no good can be parents.
If the corridors are crowded and there is an emergency it impedes evacuation or a child mislays their adult they could wonder out of school and down the road.
You can talk to teachers outside the building and see work on open days.

Unfortunately some parents and child-minders are too scared to stand up to silly rules or suggest changes as they feel children will be victimised by the school. So they are put in impossible positions for no good reason.

Are you 100% sure that the cm can not see the children?

Is this an Ofsted registered childminder?

Is she looking after your child?

Is your child one of those in the buggy, or is she collecting your child from the school?

(This will determine what to consider and what steps ought to be taken next.)

I must admit, I’m more than a little confused about the OP's position on this matter.

It seems a little contradictory in some respects. In one post she seems to approve of "... a few rebels (good on them) who push their buggies in regardless." But she takes entirely the opposite view in her most recent post.

I have 2 or sometimes 3 under twos and have a similar situation where we are supposed to leave the buggy outside and go in one door and out another. I can't get the buggy in or carry multiple children. I have to be difficult and go back out the in door against the flow of parents to keep the buggy in sight.

As pp says it is the school being difficult and they should not allow anyone in the school it blocks exits for all and allows non dbs adults access to children most schools bring children to doors and dismiss from the playground or external doors the children should all be able to self dress and bring own items with them.
Not all children are able to get up and walk and some are still tiered from afternoon naps they are warm and cosy in their buggy so getting them out which takes a few minutes mean they get wet and cold when there is no need if the school actually thought about the issues than carried on with a ridiculous policy.

There is no need to drag in leaves, buggies, dirt, etc because there is no need to drag in the parents and carers. Face it, there'll already be plenty of leaves and worse brought in to trouble the caretaker by hundreds of pairs of feet tramping the corridors.

I’ve known plenty of bonkers school rules, including some concerning pick ups, but this seems like madness. Why not handover outside? Do they worry that a teacher might dissolve if it’s raining?

THis raises other, more serious questions. Even a smallish school has 200+ students. That means about 300+ adults/siblings coming along to collect. Assuming they take safeguarding as seriously as our quiet little village school, that’s 300+ people who have to be IDed, signed in, issued with a building pass, then signed out again. How long will that take? Or are there simply no controls on who can access the building?

Has the head risk assessed the consequences of over-occupying the building with hundreds of people who have no idea how to evacuate in an emergency? Is the building certificated for this by the fire and rescue service?

You’ve had that answered by lots of people.

I agree I think the school are making things unnecessarily difficult and should rethink their dismissal procedure.

A registered childminder should not be doing this.

I do feel the school is putting her in an impossible situation without reason: plenty of schools hand over to parents and carers in the yard. It is also very inconsiderate to mums too, especially if one is pregnant or has impaired mobility and still has to carry siblings around in her arms.

Your CM needs to come to a different arrangement with the school. They are duty bound to try and accommodate her, as regulations require them to work in partnership with other educational settings. However, schools tend to consider themselves a law unto themselves and may well prevaricate and wriggle out of this responsibility.

In which case, she will have to decide whether she cares for under 5s only, or does schoolchildren only, as she clearly cannot do both without breaching the regulations. Again, it’s very poor of the school as they are denying parents the opportunity to enjoy continuity of care with one consistent childminder throughout their childhood years. I for on every wouldn’t blame her if she dropped the schoolchildren and left the head with a potential attendance problem...... it’s about the only thing schools care about.

Whichever she decides to do, she would be within her rights to give immediate notice, as she has been put in this situation by the school. Either way, it’s very sad if parents lose out because of institutional intransigence over ridiculous school rules.

The school work like many schools only the child in that class is the priority their answer is to carry baby in or get someone to watch them neither of which I will do even if they were my children but legally I'm not allowed anymore than the school could hand me some of their class and say watch them.
I explained situation to all parents and that they may get calls saying children late being collected along with my request and then stood by classroom door saying bring x to me

Jannier, what happens if parents have babies in buggies? What do the school expect them to do? (I think it’s a ridiculous rule btw and one you shouldn’t have had to fight with them to get a solution for).

Our school doesn't allow buggies inside but you have to go into the reception and nursery classes by one door and out another. Its taken an argument with the school and threats of working together and Ofsted for them to allow me to break the rule and wait to the end and have the children brought out. I have none of my own at the school but I know that there is worry that it maybe taken out on children if others ask.
It is against the regulations children must be in sight or hearing and usually both.

Defininitly not ok. Children need to be within sight or hearing at all times. So could maybe be ok for a couple of minutes if she went just inside the door and collected children from there and could always see the buggy (although it wouldn’t be best practice), but not for 5-10 minutes going into the school to round up children.

I have to walk all the way round the school to get my tribe, it takes ages and I’m pretty much always the last one back through the gates. I can’t imagine the school offering to do the rounding up for me though.

What do other parents do with their buggy’s? Is it the done thing that buggy’s are left outside or has the cm been doing this forever and forgotten that times change and things move on? (Which doesn’t make it right, I’m trying to understand why the cm is doing it).

Why the school? They aren’t her boss, talk to the childminder.