Termination of contract

Childminders are self employed.. they pay their own Tax and N.I.
Have their own terms and conditions.

So a family use her service..
Childminders are not 'hired'... Or an employee.

@BayHorseNana

You seem very quick to make outlandish accusations (from a safe distance) about nurseries, CMs and your own daughters' decisions. You’ve made an outrageous statistical claim, presumably in an attempt to lend some credibility to your views.

Yet, when challenged to simply state the source of your supposed 'evidence', you go completely silent.

The fact is, your 'statistic' purporting to demonstrate an overall low standard of childcare in the U.K. , as well as your claims of low parent satisfaction with "paid for" childcare is so far from the truth that one is left with the obvious conclusion that you did not read it "elsewhere" : most likely you just made it up. At best, you may have read a falsified piece of misinformation and were all to ready to believe it, simply because you are unable to accept your own daughters' childcare choices.

@bayhorsenana then in that case I stand by what I said - your dd needs to employ a nanny not hire a childminder/nursery - these are two different things. She has hired a CM in the same way that one hires a plumber/cleaner/hairdresser - you ask for a service, they say what they can offer when and how much for and the service user decides whether or not it is acceptable.

Ultimately your DD entered into a contract with the CM and nursery. No one forced her to. She chose to work a job which requires overnight stays and to have a child. It's not the CM responsibility to provide unlimited solutions. Does your dd actually have a problem with the CM or is it just you?

If the contract said the CM would only have one child then she may be in breach of contract. If not, then she probably isn't.

BayHorseNana,

I’m not entirely sure what you sought to achieve by jumping on this thread in order to criticise your own daughter’s childcare decisions, but in what way do you think your personal ravings are going to help with the OP's situation?

Also, in an earlier post you assert, "..... less than 50% of paid for childcare, be it CM or nursery is good, to excellent. Which equates to more than 50% of children are getting a crap deal." I think we can just about extract the meaning from the unusual syntax, but i am most curious as to where you get this supposed 'statistic' of 50%. Would you please enlighten us all as to your source?

Thank you in anticipation of your answer.

BayHorseNana - A cm is not a grandma and can not look after sick children as they would be in breach of EYFS - to minimise infection risk and to meet all the childrens needs as a Granny you can sit with a child cuddling them and give 1 to 1 but your daughter is not using you as childcare they are not paying 1 to 1 nanny at £10 plus and hour with NI, sick pay and pension on top where they can dictate what is done in a day.
A cm can have up to 6 under 8's in their care without being in breach of Ofsted or EYFS regulations. When your Daughter met the cm she may well have had less but unless it says in the contract or on her registration certificate that she would have less how is she in breach?
Collection and pick ups - if she has to do a school run yes it may take 20 mins each way that is the nature of many cm's work who she collects on route is irrelevant to your daughter unless she is going miles out of her way, why does it annoy you so much do you have to collect your grand daughter from the cm and take her to nursery?
Your Grand daughter is taking up a childminding space who is supposed to pay for it? If your daughter doesn't want to pay either she doenst use the cm and lets you drive every day/finds another or uses the CM instead of nursery.
The CM is not making as much as she is receiving from her clients unlike you she has to pay for courses, insurance, consumables, activities, petrol to and from school and activities, tax, national insurance, member ship to professional bodies, ICO registration, Higher electricity bills, maybe waste disposal (some boroughs charge cms to get rid of nappies) entrance fees, children's food and snacks....from the top of my head but probably more. The average cm is earning under minimum wage as apart from the hours she has your grandchild and other children she will also have to do continued professional development, learning journals, planning, preparing craft, checking risk assessments, cleaning toys, most will work part of their weekend on this as well as evenings.
If your daughter has ot work away from home why do you think any setting should either care fro her at extra fee , loose money by not charging or go over their legal limit your daughter chose her career you choose to support her or not but why should a business support your daughter financially? If you wanted to you could stay at hers and droop to childcare as normal.

If a CM stated they would only have one more child in their care when you took out the contract and then proceeded to take on another 3, would this b a breach of contract, or would it been down to reading the small print ?

Thank you for the comments. That's it exactly Nelly. DD has to travel and stay away overnight a few time a year as part of work . Like OP, several hours of nursery time are included in the CM's fee. So this week we have a situation whereby the CM and nursery both receive their fee but the realities are GD has stayed with me for several days.
As for me, I have had to have staff stay extra time and pay because I have been the person who has actually took care of a child.
Why I think the childminder is lazy ? Lazy is probably the wrong word. I'd see her as mercenary. She has several children she drops off and collects during the day. Some are at least 20 mins drive away.By the time I factored in how much time must be spent on the roads on these journeys, and that's if the traffic is moving smoothly, the time GD is in nursery, the actual time spent in house with GD isn't that much.

When I know how much CM is being paid /hr, know how may children she looks after, know her T&C's and how desperate those who seek her services are it doesn't take a mathematical genius to work out how much she is being paid an hour.
As for thinking no CM, or nursery could give the same care as I did, of course not. I cared for them when they were under the weather and didn't send them home. It was mainly 1 to one, or 1 to two dedicated attention. They could stay overnight and it cost the DDs not a penny.

So it's ok for other children to be 'dragged along' as you put it, whilst childminder takes your daughter to preschool but not for your daughter to go along whilst she collects/drops off other children.
Why would you expect your child to be the only drop off/collection?
Trevthe cat. We aren't nurseries though. And part of the appeal of a childminder is that we are home from home. Daily diaries are not always done in nurseries anyway.
We are more able to tell the parents face to face how day has gone or if someone else collects can always drop text later. Nursery don't have time for a chat so much as they may have 20 to 30 children leaving at once.
We are just as good as nurseries but can offer different experiences like spontaneous trips out and we know the child better s on our own constantly with such a small group.

i am also a childminder we do activities in the morning as in softplay.park.beach.woods.library then after lunch we have freeplay followed by an activity if needed painting, cooking,playdough, then before the school run we have story time.i do put the tv on sometimes but my mindees arent interested.I dont personally charge when they are at nursery or for a booked holiday but we all run our childminding business different.Is your childminder doing a learning journey?? if she does then what does she put init that your daughter has done.

@Amanda1228

Re: paying your CM whilst your daughter is in nursery 3 hours a day.....

1. Who takes and fetches your daughter to/from nursery?

1. Was this arrangement, including payment for those hours, agreed from the start?

1. Why we’re you not using the nursery for all your childcare needs from the outset?

These are not rhetorical questions: I’m genuinely interested in the answers.

If she honestly doesn't do anything with the children, has stopped daily diary (if you can call a text a diary ) and feeds then Frosties everyday then yes she does sound crap. However, school runs are highlight of the day for some of my little ones they absolutely love the routine of walking to school and meeting the bigger children. TV - on certain days I allow tv for 20 mins whilst one of the babies settles for a nap and on another day it goes on after tea (& play and homework) at 5:30 so I can have facilitate calm handovers and give my attention to tired babies. We have free play sessions everyday usually whilst I make lunch and after nap/story time - as other posters have said it's really important for children to develop their own imaginative play not always adult led or even fully educational but we usually have either an outing or a structured activity in the morning and some sort of group activity (singing, stories, nursery rhyme sack etc) in the afternoon. I know one of my 3 year olds has told her mum we just watched tv and played but I write a page a day.

You can either just give notice or work with her address your concerns. Be direct about breakfast - no sweet cereals just porridge/weetabix etc, fruit and toast for example. Ask for a more detailed outline of her day including activities and outings (do you never see photos?), query the amount of drop-offs and pick-up - a twice daily school run I would expect but picking up and dropping off other children I would expect to have been told about up front as that would piss me off as a parent too.
Hope you work it out whatever you decide but please don't judge all cm's as being lazy and greedy as most of us work bloody hard to provide a loving and educational environment for the children for very little reward.

28 days notice - normal
Charging while at pre school - normal
Paying while your child is home - normal
School runs - normal
Daily diaries - not statutory

It doesn't sound however like she's providing the care you thought she offered, so yes, you probably do want to give notice.

When you look somewhere else, ask about the type of food provided and activities attended. The childcare you want will be out there somewhere.

There are ways around it anyway. You can do the fifteen hours as two full days (ie a morning and afternoon session on two days and just pay for lunch, as long as it's a ft open year round nursery) and have a childminder for the other three. Or, quite often round here anyway, you can use the 15 hours at a childminder - they just need to be accredited to the scheme.

LiveatCityHall - childmidners spaces are limited to a total of 3 under 5 at any one time with a few controlled short term variations). if you book a childminder for every Tuesday she can sell the space Monday, Wednesday, Thursday and Friday. As there is a high chance others will want the space. If you want her to collect you child from nursery say at 11.30 she can only sell a space from about 8am to 11 (assuming you don't want a 9am drop to school) what are the chances of a parent wanting a space for 2 hours a day? You have to allow for travelling time to return to her house and to leave to get yours as nobody is likely to meet you at a nursery they don't use. Then you also have to allow for things like who will care for your child if the school is shut.
Why should the childminder loose out and subsidise your choice to use her competition? they provide the same as nursery and can take funding like a nursery so its like saying to Tesco's can you deliver my Sainsbury's shopping when you drop off the items I've ordered from you.

Live
Some parents want a nursery/preschool but can't pick up or drop off. So use a childminder.
As the Chm won't fill those few hours they usually charge. And would be available if the other setting was closed.

I'm struggling to get my head around the paying for child care when your child is in nursery. I have a child minder 1 day a week but I don't pay for her services for the other 4 days he's not in her care. Genuinely don't understand why you would have to do that 🤔

Welshmaiden85 - out of interest what is it about a school run that you don't like? Not that all childminders do one. I've also been in nurseries who routinely have tv on for an hour and healthy food includes fromage frais with 6 teaspoons of sugar in and food full of salt.

OP I decided childminders weren’t for me for similar reasons. This isnt a case of breach of contract though. More that you don’t feel she’s that good (I agree frostie, lots of TV and few outings wouldnt be okay with me either) and don’t like some things that are just standard for childminders (pick ups) or childcare in general (paying for your place when you don’t use it). Chalk it up and ask more questions of your next childcare choice.

If you don’t gel with her and aren’t happy then terminate but there is nothing there that gives you grounds for not paying the notice period.

I left a Cm as I just didn’t get a good vibe from her, it happens.

By the way, how did you expect her own kids to get to and from school?

I don’t think it sounds great but I also don’t think it sounds like grounds to not give notice.

Children sometimes exhibit attention-seeking behaviour simply because they don’t understand how the world works in real life. Experienced childcarers know it’s best to stay calm and not reward tantrums with undue attention.

I humbly suggest this might also be a good way to deal with people who jump on threads with their personal episodes of irrelevant foot stamping.

I suppose only other explanation is that CM is taking holiday, which again she is entitled to take.

This week there is the ridiculous situation where the dd childminder can not offer the CM my GD needs as mummy has to go away to work so she has had to travel several hundred miles to drop her off with me,. I am watching GD whilst CM is being paid

I assume you mean that your DD needs the CM to do extended hours, perhaps overnight or weekends or work later in the evening so your GD father can collect her? The CM is self employed, she is entitled to choose when she works and your dd has entered into a contract for that. It sounds as though your DD needs a nanny not a CM. Apologies if I am wrong but I can't see any other explanation.

OP- everyone will have a difference of opinion over what a CM/nursery should offer. I agree frosties sound crap but I'm a big advocate for free play. I have a friend whose 3 year old seems to be incapable of playing alone and I think this is largely due to friend creating his play for him all the time.

If you want to terminate the contract you should abide by the t&cs you signed up for unless the CM has done something which is a huge breach of contract.

BayhorseNana
Yes why do you call her lazy?
You don't seem to have much faith in any other care provider but yourself.
And agree with Jannier.
Some days I earn £8 per hr total. On a good day £15 I feed the children out of that, take them out, petrol, entrance to playcentres, toddler groups, monthly memberships to farms, zoos. I have to pay to be Ofsted registered, data protection, public liability. I attend courses on a Saturday, which I pay for in my own time or in evening. Update toys and supplies, paint, glue,paper etc. I spent weekends on portal setting up 3yr funding so parents can get FREE childcare whilst me making a loss on what I usually charge.

Firstly the breakfast issue. I would mention it to your childminder. Is breakfast included or charged for? I'm a childminder and wouldn't be giving such a sugary breakfast, that said I did have a parent who insisted their daughter would only eat coco pops so they provided. I only offer breakfast if arriving very early. Could you give before you leave home perhaps?
The school run is a normal part of a childminders routine wether for her own children or mindees, none of mine are dragged along though, they walk nicely or go in pushchair talking about what we see on the way also educational and learning road safety. I agree with other posts that tv is ok in moderation ie, breakfast time, nap/quiet time.
You are right to be bothered if she's not providing activities though. We spend most mornings out doing forest school, playgroup, parks etc socialising with other childminders and then at home for play dough, wet play, stories, counting, letters singing painting, glueing etc, oh and free play (valuable) and a lot of the above included in that.
Daily diary and learning journals are not obligatory and a lot of childcarers feel they take up time they could be spendi g with the little ones. I do the journals to be taken home every now and then but do not have time to fill in diarys every day for 3 or 4 children, only if still babies to show feed/nappies etc. I prefer to use Whatsapp, regularly message each parent photos of what we've done and telling them how their children are.
Charging while in nursery also normal, how can she fill a 3 hr slot and wouldn't you need her days preschool closed?
Holidays yours, again she can't fill your space during holiday so she loses, do you pay for her holiday?
If you have a contract though you would need to abide by notice period financially.