Do I have unreasonable expectations of this child?

mumpbump - oh yes . Fortunately my partner also thinks that his sons' mother/nanny/grandparents have too low expectations of them, so we are together on this one. But it's still a lot of hard work that sometimes I really don't think I ought to have to do...

I would expect a 5yo to eat with cutlery. For pasta and sauce I would provide a fork and spoon (they do in Italian restaurants after all), and for something like risotto. For shepherd's pie I would provide a knife and fork. I think this is reasonable. DS is 6 and is still learning about cutting his food up, but would certainly manage shepherd's pie easily.

It's a slow process, isn't it, Anna??

My DS(5) stops to collect rubber bands, dawdles around and will grab the scissor, trowel etc to "tidy up" the garden, dig holes etc. He is not actually allowed to do these things (the dawdling and collecting rubber bands thing drives me mad) he just does them. Some children just are like this - they have to poke at everything. We do lots of shouting but this is not probably the most effective technique for obedience training! With gardening having a designated children's portion of the garden can work (for making mud pies, weeding etc). The food thing sounds odd, but DS is also horribly clumsy at the table. I often give him a spoon rather than a fork with squishy things - maybe you could try this?

mumpbump - exactly the same issue with my stepsons (9, 12). Their mother (or rather their nanny, since that's who they eat with) has no expectations of table manners. My partner does the demo stuff from time to time when things get too bad. The battle is not won yet...

My dsc (9 and 13) used to eat with their mouths open. I used to remind them to keep them closed, but it didn't really work. What did was when I said to them, when you eat your food, this is what I see - and demonstrated chewing with a very wide open mouth. They have been a LOT better since!! As others have said, I think it has a lot to do with what the parents (or dh's ex in my case) expect at home... What you have described doesn't sound unachievable by a child of 5.

That's a good idea ie finding out what he can do, so you can adjust your expectations accordingly. ould you have a fun challenge at next meal time and each child to put three spoon/forkful into their mouth get a star/sticker?

I had a child who ate with their mouth full,I never pressured him but his peers were less forgiving and woul tell him quite bluntly at meal times that he was putting them of their food! I didn't pressure him as I knew he didn't even have a table at home, and therefore it was a new experience to him to be eating sociably (sp?). He soon came around tho, and follow the other children's lead.

I have a mindee obsessed with rubber bands too! (He is ten) Although it is pesky to stop with lots of kids surely he isn't stopping for that long?

I would continue telling him about the lawn tho, this is an issue of him respecting your home and your house rules.

Probably the key would be to find out if he can do it before you put the pressure on. If you know he can, there's not so much risk of upsetting him.

colditz - I know what you mean. But, on the other hand, if you don't have reasonably high expectations of children at home, then when they go into the outside world, they will feel like worse failures - it's pretty awful to be the only 9 year old in a class of 30 who can't tie his own shoelaces, wipe his own bottom etc

Sorry but "He stops to collect rubber bands"

I'm thinking you had had a bad day indeed!

DS speaks 3 languages, solves Y1 maths problems, recognised all letters being 2 years old. But at 4 he can not hold a spoon, a pencil, or anything with enough precission no matter how much time we have spent trying to help him develop his manual skills. So, my advice would be to focus on the positives and patiently wait/remind/insist in changing the negatives until he comes along.

Anna8888

The flip side to having high expectations of children is that when they don't meet these standards, they can feel like utter failures.

Alison222

Your mindee is only 5, and may not have the physical capabilities that your son had at five. Plus, you may be insisting that your son use cutlery, but your son is nearly 2 years older than your mindee, and if you are going to use blanket rule4s, you need to pitch them at the lowest ability group - ie, your 5 year old mindee. If you pitch the rules at the 6.5 year old's ability level, you risk seriously upsetting him, and giving him a task he simply cannot manage, for the sake of keeping your rule.

It's not worth it.

If you nag him too much while he is eating at your house, he may simply refuse to eat at your house full stop.

Most of this 'behavior' seems very normal.

despite me being very very keen on polite table manners, my 4 year old still has none. My 1 year old has more! But if his child minder was going against my wishes, and insisting he concentrates hard on his manners (thereby producing the food refusal I mentioned) I would be very cross.

You are his child minder, not his mum, and I don't think it's your place to critisize the table manners standard his own parents have set.

I can see that wandering about and grass pulling would be a problem - perhaps he needs a trip to the park where he can play with the grass? I personally consider gardens in houses with children to be the refuge of the children, but I understand that not everyone sees it like this.

My ds (nearly 5) LOVES rubber bands!!

Table manners are quite important in my house. Mindee2 often needs reminding about using his fork but he's only 2! I think it's possibly because he loves his food and thinks he can get it in his mouth quicker with his hands!!

I think he's old enough to understand that you don't want him to rip up the grass and even though he may be allowed to do this in his own garden, it's not acceptable in yours (does that sound too strict?). Could you maybe explain about your "sad looking lawn" and try growing some new grass with him?

Some of these actions may be "normal" for a 5 year old, but it doesn't mean that you should have to accept them.

Children are not allowed to pull up grass in our garden either (or trash bushes, plant pots etc). I am currently "practising" eating-with-mouths-shut-and-trying-not-to-talk-at-the-same-time with young toddler mindees - not always successful, but we all try to have relatively good manners.

I also think that a 5 year old should be able, or at least encouraged, to use a spoon, fork or whatever (not fingers) to eat a sauce-based meal.

Parents may have different rules or expectations, but children are more than capable of learning that their parents and their childminder may be different to each other. If you haven't been minding this child for very long, it won't happen overnight!

I don't think I'd expect him to use a fork for those type of foods - I think my dds used spoons until they were about 7 or 8.

only thing I'd be concered about are the rubber bands - dogs and cats and foxes might have peed all over them - dd used to have an obsession and I thought nothing of it until dh pointed this out
yuck

ive found the hard way that even tho we try our best to teach them certain things liek manners which are acceptable with us, the often do something entirley diff at home..take for instance monday night..i am working over night, mindee bathed, clean jarmys on, we're all sat watching grease..mindee as susual sits picking her nose, i ask her not to do it and say ill get her a tissue if she wants one?..No...twice more it happend, the third time she wiped a huge snotty bogy all over the cushions on the sofa, now i know shes only almost 4, but its not like i hadnt told her 3 times already in the space of 2 mins!..when i said "XXX, i said you wernt to do that, we dont wipe bogies on furniture in this house", mindee starts crying and says well i can do it a t my house, mummy lets me and laughs....absolute brick wall!, cant teach them things if parents dont do the same..and now i have all cushions in wash cos in space of 16 hr shift, they are all caked!

Agree with Twiglett and can also understand why it bothers you. How long have you had this child? My ds and mindee 1 both got this very quickly and were eating nicely at 3 BUT if this child is just being taught, it may take longer as they can get stubborn can't they if they're used to being able to just shove it in etc. Just keep up with 'at my house xyz' and I'm sure he'll get there in the end

sounds like a normal 5 year old boys behaviour to me.

(Should add, we really do teach table manners, are constantly pulling him up on the fork, and his sister is exemplary! She is always complimented by strangers when we go out on her fantastic table manners, and she is 3!)

I have similar issues with my stepsons, who are much older 12, 9). Their manners and general consideration for others are pretty non-existent because no-one bothered to have any expectations of them.

Children respond to what you require them to do. Obviously, if you have expectations of them that are beyond the biological developmental stage they are at, you will fail to get them to meet those expectations, and children's developmental path does differ. But, basically, if parents are decent people with good manners and considerate of others, and expect the same of their children, their children will grow into those behaviours too (albeit with many reminders).

Lots of parents these days are very laisser-faire IMO.

Sounds normal! My nearly 6 year old has to be reminded to use his fork, otherwise it's fingers all the way! He stops on the way home from to school and climbs lampposts. He digs holes in my garden!