Ratios for childminders

chickenwoman56...............I did to "physical floor space" 4 posts up from yours.

Erm yes I did mention space needed.

Hi. I am surprised that no one has mentioned anything about the space childminders need to care for certain numbers of children. The Early Years Foundation Stage regulations, that childminders and nurseries have to abide by, clearly states the square metres of space a child needs. It is different for each under 5's age group. The younger children need more space as they are more mobile and their learning needs are different. Anyone suspected of over minding should be reported to OFSTED. Only then can you be sure that the correct number of children are being cared for. It is a matter of child protection. If children are not able to receive the correct care due to there being too many children then they are suffering with neglect. (One of the least reported forms of child abuse). For the sake of the children ring OFSTED 03001231231. The children can't speak up themselves.

A new childminder could vary ratios due to their own baby, taking on twins or providing 30 hours nursery wraparound though.

No, there isn’t but, by default, it’s going to be the experienced childminders who use the continuity of care variations. A new childminder is extremely unlikely to need it.

Tanith.............there is nothing in the eyfs to say only the most experienced can do a self variation. The requirement is blurry you have to risk assess and be confident that you can meet the needs of all the children and the parents have to be aware of the number of children....always under 6 under 5's. An assistant allows you to have more but if they are off you can not cover those numbers. You also have to have the physical floor space as laid down. Even the inspectors find it confusing.
A good cm wont want to have that many children under 5 even for a short time.

Is she def registered with Ofsted?

For many it’s not.

The most a cm can have is 6 under 8. Even in the most extreme example this cannot be breached. I doubt however that an inspector will agree that 6 under 5’s are getting all the care, education and attention they should let alone safety.

Then an assistant can have 3 under 5. The total being 9 under 5. What the hell is she doing interviewing for more mindees and how big must her house be to adhere to floor space regulations?

It's definitely in a grey area.

There's nothing written anywhere in the eyfs or from ofsted that says the rules are different for 'new business'. Providing continuity of care for existing children is just given as one reason a childminder might make an exception to their ratios, not the only reason.

Definitely not allowed for new business!

The standard legal ratios for a childminder are no more than six under 8s. Of those six, three may be under 5 and of those three, one may be a baby of under 1.
That's for a new childminder, taking on new clients.

It's the more experienced childminders, and those working with other childminders and assistants, that are now allowed to play with the numbers for children they already care for, but may not under any circumstances take on more than six under 8s per childminder.
Of course, they may take on older children so long as it doesn't impact on the care provided for the younger ones.

What you describe would concern me. I would look elsewhere.

9 under 5s and she can take yours too? How odd! I wouldn’t.

Also she wouldn’t be able to take the ops child on as that would be new business regardless if the reasons why she’s been able to over ratios for the existing mindees.

It's because CMs normally only have 3 under 5, which is the nursery ratio for under 1s. 2 year olds in mixed age groups are easier than a whole group of 2 year olds.

Anyway ... if she's a registered CM with more than 3 under 5, the parents of the children should all be aware and must be happy with it and she will have risk assessed how she can manage.

She can't just have 6 under 5 because she feels like it. It's slightly more complicated than that.

That’s right - it’s the same ratio as for childminders for under 5s.
The ratio goes up to 1:4 for 2 year olds and 1:8 for 3-5 year olds, 1:13 if there is a graduate lead practitioner.

The ratios for childminders can be flexible under certain circumstances due to the flexibility of our provision, with different ages, wrap around care etc. No idea if this is the case for nurseries: I’m assuming it wouldn’t be as necessary.

DH and I had 9 under 5 for our ofsted inspection. It is allowed under certain circumstances. We prefer the 6 or 7 we have each day now. During the holidays, with the older children, we often have 12 or 13 children (one is 9).

9 under 5s is between 2 childminders is permissible under certain circumstances. The rising 3s and 4s for one thing, siblings and
continuity of care for another.
Don't forget that nursery ratios are even higher: 1:13 if they employ a graduate.

I recently renewed my insurance certificate (work with another childminder) and was shocked to see that the number of children we are insured to mind between us has gone up from 10 to 18!!

Number of Minded Children
Based on the information provided and subject to your compliance with the requirements of your registering authority you and the Joint Policyholder will be covered for minding a maximum of:
a.12 children at any one time whilst either of you is working alone;
b.18 children at any one time whilst you are working together
c.18 children at any one time whilst either of you is working alone with EITHER a registered assistant OR another registered childminder (NOTE - registered Childminders must have their own insurance)
d. 22 children at any one time whilst you are working together with EITHER a registered assistant OR another registered childminder (NOTE - registered Childminders must have their own insurance)
e. 22 children at any one time where one of you is working alone with EITHER two registered assistants OR two registered childminders OR a registered assistant and a registered childminder (NOTE-registered Childminders must have their own insurance)

Looks like the ratio changes were sneaked in through the back door after all

Nine children under five years old between two of them?!?
Bloody hell!

That doesn't sound right at all. If I've understood that correctly then she's potentially putting those children at risk.

I'm in wales so we don't have the ability to do variations or continuity of care. The max I'm allowed under five (excluding rising fives) is three.