CM Club: will mindee be viewed as a rising 5 ?

didnt find much out as ofsted havent set the standereds yet
basically they are thinking of giving sep cert to childcarers for 0-5 yrs, 5-8 yrs and over 8's
not sure what this means for cm as we look after children in all 3 categories

maybe its to make sure childcarers for over 8's are registered but at the moment as far as i can tell its volentary to add your name to ofsted if you care for children over 8

personally i am doing nothing until ofsted contact me

Early Years Issue 5 says that OCR was the main topic at the regional conferences. So what did you find out? Any chance of starting a new thread with details of what you found out at the conference?

think so
just one of the topics that was disscussed

got a letter from ofsted when i got home sat explaining what i had heard at the course

Dmo, do you mean the change to the Ofsted Childcare Register?

Well how are we supposed to impliment the changes if no-one knows what they are?

anyway from April 07 ofsted are changing reg in 3 sep ways
been on a course today all day
but still as yet (with 2 weeks to go) ofsted have not released any of the guidelines

Nick I have been asking NCMA and Ofsted this question for over 5 years and have had so many different answers, nobody seems to want to decide what really qualifies as 5

Personally I would ignore Ofsted (especially if it's only the helpline, rather than someone actually in the know), and instead refer to Childminding Guidance (2004).

"The number of children for whom you may care is stated on your certificate of registration. The following factors are taken into account when deciding on the number of children:"
"? whether any of the children attend ten early education sessions a week, for example in reception classes, nurseries or pre-schools"

A session in my view is 2.5 hours or more.

Having searched extensively, I can not locate any other reference to this rising fives issue.

Those of you who are NCMA members, please can you ask your area NCMA rep to clarify the position... if NCMA don't know then at least they are in a good position to challenge Ofsted over how Guidance is interpreted. I can not locate anything of relevance on NCMA's website - surely this has come up before, so why is there no help for NCMA childminders on this issue?

I have done a bit of googling & receptin does appear to be the "normal" so-to-speak

OFSTED strikes again

I have been told that it is

a 4yo
attending 10 sessions
at reception
not nursery/nursery school/nursery class in a school

so who the hell knows

Ive been trying to get a answer from Ofsted for 4 years as I have this problem every year, and if I hadn't had 1 child move this year I would have had 2 Rising 5's this year, which would have cut my income in September by a lot.

My child is 4 Goose but Ive been claiming Nursery grant for her since she was 3, she goes to school in September. The Nursery I worked at had rising 5's, most do surely.

We will have to ask Katymac what she has.

I agree Shosha, except that they have to be 4 to be a rising 5, not 3, so your 3 year olds don't count.
Nurseries don't have rising 5's do they?? I mean aren't they just 4 no matter what age they are?? For ratio purposes.

Would you trust Ofsted to give you a clear answer?

children here by the way go mornings only to school, from September to December, A long time to have afull time child only paying for a part time place.

goose, according to Ofsted as I am accredited I am no different than a pre school, for My over threes, as I have to do the same curriculum and get the same nursery grant for them, so if they count as over 5 at a nursery 10 sessions a week, then it must follow that if they are with me for 10 sessions a week,(which my child going to school in September is) than she must count as 5

No I totally agree. I wouldn't trust Ofsted to give a consistent answer to this or other questions especially after all the different things I was told when I moved house recently.

Yes it does, as my certificate came back by return at the end of October with the altered numbers ie 3 under 5's instead of the old 2 under 5's.
He started school in Jan and isn't 5 until the end of April.

gooseegg - I don't mean that you irritate the heck out of me, sorry!! (Only Ofsted!)

This irritates the heck out of me. This is, as far as I am concerned, another Ofsted-lack-of-consistency scenario again!

How come it's OK for some areas/childminders and not for others?!

gooseegg - does that mean that, if your own 4 year old was with you (day off, school holidays, before/after nursery etc), you would have been able to have four under 5s in your care?

Only 4yr olds, not all children.
All I know is it worked for me and my inspector was experienced, not a newbie.

But surely that is only to do with how many children a particular childminder can have, not whether they count as a rising 5.

It wouldn't make sense to say that a child attending full-time nursery would count as a rising 5.

It states in the 'Guidance to the National Standards' for Standard 2.2-2.6 (Childminder Ratios)

"The number of children for whom you may care is stated on your certificate of registration. The following factors are taken into account when deciding on the numbers of children ...

... whether any of the children attend ten early education sessions a week, for example in reception classes, nurseries or pre-schools."

Yes, a full time child at nursery who is 4 counts as a 5 year old for childminding ratios.
I had my last inspection in October and my own 4 yr old had just started nursery full time for the term before he started school. I asked the inspector whether he could now count as a 5 yr old and she said yes immediately and altered my certificate to show I could now care for 3 under fives.
The guidance notes to the standards are clear
on this.
I'll try to dig them out.

I would guess when she is with you Shosha during the day she would count as a 4yr old,
but you 'might' be able to count her as a 5 yr old if you have her for longer in the day ie for a few hours of 'after school' care.
I would count her as a 5yr old once she starts school. Some schools do the morning/afternoon only thing for a week or two but some start with full days from the first day. School is school imo.

Children here start (proper) school when they are 4. They only do mornings or afternoons until the half-term holiday. They do not count as a rising 5 until they are in school full-time (I've checked!) - it can pose problems for parents who suddenly have to find part-time childcare for children who may have been at nursery full-time.

Tan - I don't think your mindee will be a rising 5 until he/she starts school full-time, and definitely not whilst still at nursery.

Shosha - I don't think your mindee would be a rising 5 until at school full-time.

Gooseegg - are you saying you think a full-time child at nursery counts as a rising 5? That implies a 6 month old who is at nursery full-time but needs collecting at 4pm would count as a rising 5??!