Are my employers being unfair?

Some people are saying that the OP should have taken the grieving days off as holiday, but one of the problems is that the employer is being inflexible about holidays, and I doubt this would be granted.
I can see things from both sides. As someone who is rarely off from work (teaching), its annoying when people are off a lot. However, sometimes times come along when bad things happen in a succession, and more days off might be needed. A nanny is no different to anyone else - if you are genuinely ill, you shouldn't be harassed by your employer.

The Dad has the right to do what he wants in his own house. HOWEVER, you signed up for a sole charge job, not for shared charge, and I can see why you don't like your boss being around all the time. It really sounds like you might be better off looking for another, sole charge, job.

Blondes I have a week booked in June, booked October last year and I now have 2 weeks in November even though we don't know the dates I need just yet! Granny has booked 4 weeks out in her diary and MB has booked 4 weeks of phone/video meetings and will work from home. Let's hope s/he doesn't decide to hang on in there for 2 weeks!

I also have 3 weeks off in August! Can't really complain.

Hmmmm sits firmly on the fence

On one hand I think they are not being unreasonable - you have had a lot of time off for various reasons and each time they need to find cover and /or pay double

Most companies only give compassionate leave for immediate family and cousin/nan isn't included so the fact you have had several days off they are being fair

When my husband died my employers give me 3 weeks paid leave. I then wanted to go back and they said take more bless them - but I went back then as needed too for my sanity

I also had 3 weeks off in same job 4yrs earlier due to a blood clot that went to my lung and collapsed it and in hospital for 2 weeks

Slightly different circumstances in both cases to you're but my employers were amazing

Holidays - never had a request denied. Think contract says as long as they get 6 weeks notice of my dates

Would bug me big time to be told no / and as callaird knows I can't believe her bosses find it hard to give time off - even with notice

Yes our employers have busy times at work but nannies are entitied to their /our holiday

Db at home. As annoying as it may be at times - you are paid to do a job regardless if he is there or not and none of your business if he's in bed or not etc

Sorry for your losses

peggyundercrackers - your company policies are definitely not normal

msgrinch - I agree with you !

13 days off... Yabu. I lost my aunt who raised me and went to work the next day. Sorry but you need to sort yourself out. Any of my employees having that huge amount of time off would be facing disaplinary action at least, under two years employment and id sack them. Business is business no matter what issue is going on in your home life.

And your company's sickness policy is so, so, far removed from any company I've ever even heard existed, nevermind worked for

really? I think its normal because ive worked here for so long. my DP works for another international company but his policy is nearly the same as mine. I don't think it is unusual for big companies.

Well I'm going against the grain too, I think they're being quite mean irrespective of what they're "legally" entitled to do. There has to be a human element too surely.

And your company's sickness policy is so, so, far removed from any company I've ever even heard existed, nevermind worked for.

But the type of job does make a difference- if you're a nanny and sick, it really does leave your employers in the lurch and I don't think they were 'harrasing' as such, they needed clear communication as to exactly what was going on because setting up childcare arrangements last minute with no clear timeframe to work with is a pretty arduous task I imagine.

It's not the same as being employed in an office at all. Same goes for leave- yes there should be give and take both sides but part of being a good nanny is learning the art of flexibility and compromise, though of course that has to work both ways.

Peggy she's had 13 days off in 1 year. And wanted even longer for the grieving. That's a lot.

peggy being a nanny is so far removed from the employment situation you've described.

but she is taking no more sick leave than the national average - type of job makes no difference to the stats.

Public sector peggy?

nope absolutely not, private company.

So you want 6 days of leave in total for the two distant family members? Two days grieving for each, and another 2 days - 1 for each funeral, and you wanted a few extra for the cousin too as you weren't ready. I think that is very extreme and I can see why they are getting a bit fed up here actually.

So that's 6, more if they'd have let you, plus 4 days where you were in hospital, plus 3 days with your ankle.

You've had nearly 3 weeks off where they've had to find alternative childcare, that really, really is a lot. In less than a year?

No, of course it's not your fault you were in hospital, but I can see why they are starting to loose all goodwill.

I'm sorry but you're being a bit dramatic here with the grieving. No, you wouldn't be able to just not be sad anymore if you had to go to work. Nor would anyone. But you can't just not go to work if people are relying on you. You can still feel sad while going about your normal life. That's what we all have to do.

And being pestered in hospital is not great, no, but if you weren't replying they needed to know how long you were going to be off for, as they needed to sort alternative arrangements. If you had kept them informed then that wouldn't have been necessary.

It sounds like the relationship has broken down, you both feel the other is being completely unreasonable. You either need to have a clear the air discussion or go your separate ways.

peggy being a nanny is so far removed from the employment situation you've described.

Public sector peggy?

Waaaay more generous than any job I have ever had.

The average sickness rate in the uk is 4.4 days per year with woman having more days off than men.

I think your getting a hard time, 4 or even 5 days off in a 12 month period isn't a lot of sick leave.

in our work we get 2 weeks off for a bereavement for someone close in the family as a minimum, we can get another 2 weeks on top of that unpaid if needed, sick leave isn't questioned until you have had 3 instances off in a 12 months period - the length of time doesn't matter for each instance no matter if its 1 day or 1 month. If you are off sick you are expected to call in the day you are sick by 9am and depending on the reason for sickness you may be expected to call in daily or weekly e.g if your off because of a broken leg no one expects you to call in daily because it's common sense your leg isn't going to get better the next day and your going to be back at work.

Holidays we get when we want, leave is never refused. Overtime is paid all the time and is paid a month in arrears, you can ask for toil (time off in lieu) if that suits you, toil must be taken the same month as you have worked it. This is so peopLe cannot build up several weeks worth of toil then go off for weeks at a time.

I wouldn't expect an employer to harass you when you are off sick, switch your phone off if that's the case. Charge them for your time if you work over your contracted hours. If you ask for leave and they refuse ask for an alternative date or when you ask for leave give them two options expecting to get one of them. They should not be telling you how much alternative care costs them as its nothing to do with you - it's a form of harassment and bullying, they are trying to make you feel guilty.

but that you don't think you are capable to look after the children in your current state to your best ability and that you feel that it's best all around that you take at least this week unpaid.

I can see this from both sides really. I can understand why your employers are getting a bit grumpy about it, it's quite stressful to work out childcare cover at the last minute and to have had to do this 4 (?) times in the course of just a year must be difficult for them.

I also understand that sometimes these things come along one after another and it's not your fault, if they had happened over the course of two or three years they probably wouldn't think twice.

I have to book my holidays when my boss is quiet at work, if I have a special occasion (my dad's 70th birthday in June (a week off to take him holiday) and my first niece/nephew arriving in November) I try to give them as much notice as possible (more than 6 months in both cases) and they sort out other childcare arrangements. But if I wanted a holiday with a friend, I would say I want to go away in the next 3-4 months what weeks are good for you?

As others have said, I have rarely had time off sick and Have struggled into work sometimes when I really should have stayed at home! In 30 years I have taken 12 days off sick. It's Sod's law that the days you need off are days that DB cannot cover for you.

I would reply to them that you understand the pressure they are under to find cover but that you don't think you are capable to look after the children in your current state and that you feel that it's best all around that you take at least this week unpaid. When this has all blown over, tell them that you are owed holiday and that you would like to take a week off in the next three months and can they tell you which weeks work best for them.

Good luck. I hope it all works out and I'm so sorry for you loss.

I think your getting a hardtime here.
When you return I would clear the air (or arrange a meeting) and see if holiday etc can be organised.... how long notice they need etc, what is a 'good' time.
Reading this makes me.glad I work as a teacher with understanding for being off. You sound like you have been through a lot recently.

More of a flood than a drip feed! you didn't say anything about the messages, or what they said to you.
People can only answer what you've told them, so if you don't mention the actual salient points, the answers are meaningless. Which is a waste of everyones time.

Tbh you've drip fed here a bit.

If my nanny were hospitalised I certainly wouldn't be repeatedly texting to saying it as inconvenient and expensive. BUT I would legitimately expects be kept updated on when you were likely to be back so I could ensure I could make arrngemebts. All jobs would expect this. Sounds like you went a bit incommunicado (not ok) so I have a little bit of sympathy on then tracking down your do.

If by sap you mean statutory sick pay, this is paid at a flat rate after 3 days from memory and is not a Contractual benefit but a Statutory entitlement. Or did they pay your regular wages.

Fwiw my nanny'a contract says sap only but in practice I would pay full pay on discretionary basis.

whether I should be really be made to feel so bad on the occasions where I was hospitalised and right when someone has just passed away. I feel bad enough for not being there in the first place

If you were hospitilised you should have taken proper sick leave. And unfortunately while of course its very hard to lose family members, most people still have to go to work. If you felt bad perhaps its because you knew they were upset that you were taking time off for something that most people wouldn't even ask for?

They are allowed to be annoyed at you inconveniencing them with time off. But you control whether you feel bad about it, no-one else.

OP, you might have had a different response if you'd given this most recent information in you original post!

Of course it's not appropriate for them to harass you when you're in hospital. As long as you were keeping them informed about your likely return to work date, they should have left you alone. I don't blame you for feeling as though you've been treated badly on this issue.

I'm confused about the time you've had off for bereavement (your OP indicates 5 days but your recent posts suggest 4) but regardless, I don't think they've been unfair. 4/5 days is excessive. Yea, we all grieve differently, but as an employee you have a responsibility and should be able to minimise the impact your personal life has on your work.

Going forward I think you need to start speaking up for yourself, have a meeting to agree some holiday leave and ask for an appraisal to clarify duties, communications, extra hours worked etc.

If it helps, can you put your thoughts in a note or email and ask them to consider your requests before having a meeting in a weeks time?