Really difficult mindee

Glad parents are now on same wavelength as you. That will help that all carers are consistent

Glad you had a better week

ReallyTired Are you Mum Childminder or Nanny?
Interested thats all.

Glad you had a better week Button

My child was like that and eventually our childminder gave us a notice. We are now seeking a referral for behavioural issues. So perhaps not a childs fault, but if you are not coping is it best to give notice I think.

It's just the age really. If it's really stressing you out though and nothing seems to be working, just give notice to the parents.

it's not developmentally normal to do what this child is doing. The op obviously cares as she has tried and is trying as many solutions as she can find. What solutions do you have to offer Really , rather than attacking the op ?

I didn't see your last post. Sorry. But if you've tried everything then time has come to part company with this child. I don't see the point of people quoting Ofsted. If methods suggested aren't working then the parents must make other arrangements because the well being of the other children must be taken into consideration. Hope things work out.

Surely exposing a child to being bit, hit and kicked on a regular basis is damaging to that child. If this child cannot be stopped from acting in this way (and it appears that she can't be) then she must be looked after on a one to one basis away from other children until this behaviour stops. Why should a poor frightened child be subjected to this physical abuse at a childminders when they should be safe.

"But quickly picking her up and putting her on the other side of the room with a firm 'no'? Even if you have to do it a million times, it sinks in. This is also how she learned not to touch the wood burner, radiators and plug sockets. "

Surely putting a child on the other side of the room is in essence similar to using a naughty step, even if you don't call it that. Having a naughty wall or a naughty corner is not much better than having a naughty step. OFSTED objects to the use of time out with under threes because of the mild element of rejection.

Children learn not to touch dangerous objects as they mature, develop langage and can be reasoned with. I feel its the passage of time that makes children learn acceptable behaviour rather than arbitary sanctions. This little mindee is in the throws of the terrible twos and this phase will pass.

I do not agree with Gina Ford's ideas on looking after babies, but I feel that her ideas about looking after toddlers are far more realistic. Clearly she has had a lot experience with toddlers through being a nanny, but has never had her own baby. Ironically Dr Sears who is the other end of the parenting spectrum also advocates descriptive praise.

www.askdrsears.com/topics/parenting/discipline-behavior/shape-childrens-behavior

Removing a toddler from a situation to demonstrate unacceptable behaviour is a million miles from the naughty step. I never used it - frankly I couldn't be bothered constantly returning her to it (as you say).

But quickly picking her up and putting her on the other side of the room with a firm 'no'? Even if you have to do it a million times, it sinks in. This is also how she learned not to touch the wood burner, radiators and plug sockets.

That works very well alongside praising the good in my (albeit limited) experience. It teaches them both ends of the spectrum: this is behaviour I would like to see, this is behaviour that will not be tolerated.

OFSted don't approve of the naughty step with young children. Even Jo frost (from super nanny) does not advocate it for under twos. If you put a defiant toddler in the naughty step they will simply get off it. You will end up playing a game of catch where you keep putting the toddler back. With older children the naughty step can work well, but many toddlers do not have the capacity to reflect on their behaviour.

Gina ford has much better ideas for disciplining a small child.

www.contentedbaby.com/TheNaughtyStep.html

Descriptive praise works well. It also makes it clear what your expectations are. Attention is given for good behaviour.

I'm not a CM, but my now 5yo DD has phases like this. We watched her like a hawk to try and pre-empt any incidents. But if she did break away, we'd just say 'no' and remove her from the situation, room if possible. She soon learned that she couldn't behave like that. Obviously when she got older she could be reasoned with "hitting hurts other children, that makes us sad", but a quickly enforced time out worked wonders before 2yo.

ReallyTired, my 8mo DS has learned not to bite me during BF, because every time he did it he got put down. A time out from milk certainly meant he learned not to do it, and I don't think he's particularly developmentally advanced...

"I would and expect a 21mth to say sorry

The twins I look after are 23mths and they have time out and say sorry etc if pull each other's hair /hit etc"

Really... Time out or expecting an apology is a total waste of time for many children in that age group. Trying to reason with a child under two is often a waste of time in some cases. A lot of children only have a handful of words and no real concept of time at 21 months.

Are you not aware that there is a range of normal development? My daughter at 18 months old could hold a full conversation and learning to use the potty. Other children over the age of three before their development reaches that point. At the age of six the developmentally slower children have caught up my daughter in the majority of cases. All neurologically typical children progress at the pace that is right for them. I don't think that my daughter being an early developer was anything to do with the quality of my parenting. Some children need a little more time than others.

Time out might work with a developmentally advanced child, but is ineffecutual with a baby. There is little point in comparing one child's development with another. You need to look at where the child is at developmentally and plan appriopiately.

You've given it your best shot. I know it's difficult when you have had her for a long time. But if it was me I'd say something like she is very unsettled and more or less find another childminder or nursery. I think you owe it to the other children to keep them safe for being hurt. It's a hard decision but how long can things carry on like this. You could try and have one more discussion with the parents. But sounds to me as if one to one care with a nanny would be better for the time being.

I would and expect a 21mth to say sorry

The twins I look after are 23mths and they have time out and say sorry etc if pull each other's hair /hit etc

Children of this age know they've done something wrong

Both you and parents need to sit down together and discuss action plan. Does she behave like that at home /alone?

Is it an attention thing?

And obv you like this child or woukdnt be Asking for help /solutions - if you didn't like her uou would give notice

I feel for you then, as it sounds v tricky to deal with as a joint effort.

I hope you manage to find a way to resolve things. If things don't improve, I think, given the lack of parental support (for you in trying to tackle this behaviour) I would consider whether to stop minding her tbh.

Best of luck.

My then 2yo DD definitely knew when she was deliberately hurting others