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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

Where do I stand with nanny?

31 replies

Yabing · 18/07/2015 10:46

Nanny has been with us for 3 years. In April we made her an offer for July this year (reduced hours but increased hourly pay), to account for a change in circumstances. She accepted this offer verbally.

Yesterday she told me that she was going for an interview today, and has given me one week's notice this morning.

The notice terms on her contract are 8 weeks, with a statutory minimum of 4 weeks due to her length of service.

I know that I cannot stop her from leaving, but if you have been in this situation before, please can you share how you handled it? I cannot think straight at the moment, as I feel so disappointed. I know that the first priority is to put new childcare into place. This is the first nanny that we employed, so not sure how to terminate the arrangement properly given the breach of contract.

Many thanks for your advice.

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Yabing · 21/07/2015 00:05

Hopefully this is my final post on this thread!

I wanted to say a huge THANK YOU for sharing your perspectives. The last few days have been utterly horrible, but coming back to read this has really helped me to see from all sides. I hated the prospect of losing someone whom not only the dcs but also I had become close to, but amidst the shock and hurt, I could see why she had made the choice that she had. You have also helped me to see how I could manage such a situation differently if it happens again in the future.

We spoke a couple of times today and I think that our friendship will survive. I was really upset at the thought of ending on a bad note, and I know that she was too. I didn't see the point in us both continuing to be upset, and I feel much better now that we have cleared the air.

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Yabing · 20/07/2015 17:52

Hi,
Yes, we gave her written notice of the new hours and pay which she accepted verbally. It's my mistake that I did not ask her to accept in writing.

Anyway, we have met today and reached a conclusion.

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minderjinx · 20/07/2015 12:04

Looking at things from another perspective for a minute, did you give her written notice of your intention to change the terms and conditions of her job? Unless those changes were very minor, she could be entitled to be made redundant and given redundancy pay if was unwilling or unable to accept the new terms. She should also have been asked to accept the new terms in writing. She might be doing you a favour by simply finding herself a new job.

Yabing · 19/07/2015 19:44

Thank you. I have told the children, and they are prepared to say goodbye to her. Understandably, they are upset and have asked if they will see her again. She is supposed to work next week, and they have asked if they can have one more day with her, which will probably happen. I can't really comment on how our friendship will pan out, I know she is upset too.

I have spoken to nanny. I understand why she did what she did. I hope her next job works out for her.

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Strawberrybubblegum · 19/07/2015 07:18

I feel incredibly sad for my children, especially my youngest.

I don't think you should worry so much about this. It's wonderful that they love their nanny - they've had a great attachment relationship with her - but you are their primary attachment, and they really will be fine with a new nanny. Continuity of care-giving is important, but 3 years is a good, long stint and if your next nanny is long term too, that will be very good!

You feel really betrayed, and horrible about the way this has ended - but your children don't. They do pick up their emotional cues from you, so make sure you are positive and friendly to your nanny when she comes to say goodbye, and continue to speak well of her to them in future. Keep your explanations very simple and matter of fact, and only what they need to know. You say childcare isn't a problem for the next few months: if they will have you until term starts, then they won't look back!

Good luck in finding someone wonderful - I'm sure you will.

Strawberrybubblegum · 19/07/2015 06:43

Sunshine - even if she didn't have the courage to decline the new terms 3 months ago (which I could understand if jobs are rare in that area), she should at least have talked to OP about it. People can find solutions when you discuss things openly!

If OP's nanny had spoken to her in person and said something like 'I know this will cause you difficulties, but I'm going to struggle with the lower income, and this job - which is perfect because of xyz - needs a quick start. What can we do?' I suspect OP would have released her nanny from the contract, and felt sad but not so incredibly let down. Rather than sending her a text (fgs!) presenting it as fait accompli.

GemmeFatale · 19/07/2015 03:38

I'd be honest in the reference. Happy with her work, unhappy that she has left you in the lurch and not provided contractual notice period.

Yabing · 19/07/2015 02:15

I do also think that there has been the requirement for as early a start as possible.

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Yabing · 19/07/2015 01:35

Hi Sunshine,
Yes, I think there is a lot in what you say. The cut in hours did amount to a salary reduction, although we increased her hourly rate very substantially to try and compensate. I can understand why she has done what she has. I do not think it is personal, and suspect that the reasons are more logistical and practical. She mentioned that she loves us like family. However, she has still dropped us in it.

I don't think that she was left without a choice, as we gave her 3 months' notice of the changes and asked her to come back after talking it through with her family. So no pressure to accept and plenty of time to look for alternatives if she was unhappy with the proposal. I understand that finding another job to work around our requirements was not very easy (but not impossible), and we had said we would be as flexible as we could if needed.

I do feel that as employers we went above and beyond many times for our Nanny. I guess this is partly why I'm so shocked and upset by what has happened in the last two days.

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sunshinenanny · 19/07/2015 00:27

She was with you for 3 years without any problems, so can you think of any other reason why she has done this?

She may have felt in April that she had no choice but to accept the new hours. Would this have meant a substantial reduction in wages for her?

Whatever happens be fair about how she has performed as a nanny during the past 3 years.

It may be she has had to accept a quick start in the new job and feels she needs to take it as you wish to cut her hours.

I would not do this myself and I have really put myself out for some of my employers when it comes to notice but can see where she might be coming from!

Yabing · 19/07/2015 00:19

I just wanted to say thank you to you all for your responses, I appreciate them! I have asked Nanny to come over next week to say goodbye to the children and hand over keys, sort out admin etc. She will not be required to work and I will tell the children beforehand that she is leaving us.

I am not a vindictive person, and have no desire to make her life difficult for the sake of it. I still don't know whether to provide a reference. I feel incredibly sad for my children, especially my youngest.

I will inform her that she is in breach of contract, to make sure she is fully aware of this, but I have no expectation that she will work her notice.

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Strawberrybubblegum · 18/07/2015 21:34

The job has been offered and accepted, so I guess a reference is neither here nor there.

That's not necessarily the case. Most jobs (whether nanny or otherwise) are offered "subject to satisfactory references" and breaking a contract with only 1 week notice - especially when that will cause real problems for the employer - would make many employers think twice (unless poaching nannies is par for the course near you, as I hear can be the case in some parts of London).

It's not only the possibility that the employee might do the same thing again, it's also the unprofessional, inconsiderate attitude it shows. If they have only just offered, then the new family could presumably just continue their search - disappointing but not inconvenient for them.

It's your choice whether you tell the new family what has happened (carefully, so as not to get into legal trouble) or whether you gracefully just allow it to slide, perhaps trying to avoid giving a reference. It's a difficult decision because your nanny's life might become very difficult if you choose to tell them. You wouldn't continue her employment now, because she has breached your trust, and she could find it hard to get another job without a good reference.

Although this has made life difficult for you, you don't sound like the kind of person who would make things difficult for her out of vindictiveness. So it probably comes down to whether you feel more responsibility for her well-being, or for the risk of the new family being let down as you have been.

Yabing · 18/07/2015 20:35

What has happened in the past is that we have had a review every year to discuss pay and hours, and agreed them between us. We did the same in April this year, and I was very clear that she was under no obligation to accept, which would have given us both 3 months to sort things out. I do think that the more professional thing to do would have been to decline in April, if she had been unhappy, as you mention Aridane.

The job has been offered and accepted, so I guess a reference is neither here nor there.

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swlondonnanny · 18/07/2015 19:37

Just a thought - does she by any chance thinks that her contract finished at the end of June and new one (which you said was verbal agreement) started in July??? So she would technically be in trial period when 1week notice is acceptable?
Not saying that is what happened but wonder where 1week notice would be acceptable....

DrinkFeckArseGirls · 18/07/2015 19:31

She could have declined in April!

Aridane · 18/07/2015 19:29

I guess nanny wasn't happy that you changed her contractual terms and conditions - and which she hadn't formally accepted in writing. So I'm sort of with her on this one.

Grewupinafield · 18/07/2015 19:09

Just to clarify that a previous poster said, teachers have to give at least half a term notice, which is 8 weeks. Some schools require a full term.

Op, I would reflect what she's done in the reference. "Previous employee"' sounds like she's told them she's left your employment already.

Sorry you're experiencing this. She needs to fulfil her contract or come to an agreement with you

DrinkFeckArseGirls · 18/07/2015 19:01

I'd reply: Ms X is still in my employment and I'm yet to receive a verbal or written 8 week notice as per her contract.

IcecreamHavoc · 18/07/2015 18:20

I had three months notice in all my nanny jobs. It worked fine. Whichever side received notice (mostly me as is stayed long term in all my jobs) was able to work professionally until the three months were up.

Your nanny has acted unprofessionally and certainly shot herself in the foot. I wonder if it is all a ploy to get more money/her hours back...

Karoleann · 18/07/2015 18:13

Don't respond to the reference request, legally you don't have to give one.
It's very very unlikely she will get a job without an up to date reference.

I would just remind your current nanny that she has an 8 week notice period and you will not be supplying a reference until that notice period has expired.

2plus1 · 18/07/2015 15:51

A text does not constitute notice. I understand it should be verbally or in writing, that way you know it came from them. Anyone could send a text from someone's phone. Also check your contact as ours stated that notice was to be in writing.
If your nanny insists on less notice than the contractual notice then I would write to them detailing the contractual agreement and that if she chooses to leave early, then you as the employer is entitled to stop her pay and benefits. Obviously, you cannot force her to stay and carry out her work but you can make it clear that her reference will reflect the situation.
As far as her reference goes, I would clarify that she is still employed by you rather than being an ex employee. Sorry to hear you are having to go through this.

Yabing · 18/07/2015 15:13

I've been asked for a reference this afternoon (I haven't responded yet). I'm not thinking calmly enough at the moment. New employer said "I understand she worked for you previously" which bothered me, as I have not yet had written notice, unless a text this morning counts!

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PinkPearlClutcher · 18/07/2015 14:47

Nothing much you can do but you can certainly tell her next employee when they ask for a reference!

yabing · 18/07/2015 12:59

I won't be taking anyone to court, but I feel so let down. As employers we have bent over backwards to accommodate her and supported her during some times of real personal difficulty. She did ask for a reference, and has offerred her friendship. I don't know how to feel about that. I think I need some time to consider, I would have called us friends and we always said we would keep in touch, but I feel as if some time needs to pass first.

She has recommended a nanny friend who might be interested in the job we are offering.

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SunshineAndShadows · 18/07/2015 11:37

If she's expecting a reference you can be clear that she's been unreliable and breeched her contract. You just need to be factually correct.

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