Term time only (self employed) nanny- possible?

Also with holidays I presume you could get round it by contracting her for slightly longer than term time on the basis that her annual leave is taken in the school holidays.

They are wrong

Point them into this direction and we shall tell them that

Thank you for the clarification both :) i am employed luckily! but on the nanny chat facebook support group, people are always saying what I said above! it is all so confusing.

cry not quite, as blondes says, they'd still be working set hours for each family, so it's two employed jobs. Self-employment comes in when you have some control over your hours and can choose whether or not to work it.

I'm employed and self-employed. I work three days a week for one family on an employed basis. I also do extra work for various families at my discretion, I have the ability to turn down work or tell them I can't do those times and they can accept that or not.

In the past I've had three employers at once, I was employed for certain days/times for each family.

HMRC are bloody useless when it comes to nannies, as are local council services. My local council Home Childcare service tells all ofsted registered carers that they can be full-time "home childcarers" on a self-employed basis, I've spoken to them but they aren't bothered, it doesn't come back on them and they misunderstood what they had been told by their contacts. It doesn't help that the .gov page is stupidly ambiguous these days.

But then the two jobs are permanent and fixed days and times so the family is calling the shots and not the nanny - which makes the job employment and not self employed

A nanny can only be self employed if they work for more than one family (and at different times) so for example, if I worked for 1 family mon and Tues and another on Thurs and Fri then I could be self employed but tbh I think it's easier to just employ her.

I am a term time childminder. I ask for annualised payments from parents. So as I get paid the same amount every month and for 12 month of the year. I only charge term time though.

An example below for a parent who only uses me one day a week.

Over the academic year I will work 41 days for her. £40 x 41 = £1640.
£1640/12 = £136.67.

If you do have to employ the lady. You could work out her pay as above. What you pay her per day x amount of days throughout the year she will work and divide by 12.

Therefore she will get paid when she is off on holiday.

I am no accountant or tax advisor but surely that would cover it.

If those babysitting jobs are recorded/invoiced as actual paid jobs then yes they will count :-)

That is absolutely it thegirlfrom, she must be able to prove should hmrc ever need it which is highly unlikely that she works for other families too should this be occasional babysitting or nannying.

Also make sure she invoices you so you've got proof she is telling you what you have tp pay her rather than the other way round.

My old nanny had another nanny we could use if she was I'll too although the need never arose for us.

I would, at the very least, ask if she could get some other clients by way of offering occaisional or ad-hoc childcare.

This would solve the main and most visible issue with regards to her not being your employee.

You are of course allowed to contract her for whatever hours you see fit and she can accept to work those hours iyswim. I would also do as Sally said and ask if she can provide her own 'materials'.

One of the criteria for being SE is that the person contracted can arrange their own replacement if necessary but you can agree informally between yourselves that this will never happen and I'd eat my hat if Hmrc ever used that one point alone in defining employment over SE with regards to care of children iyswim.

OP, I have used a self employed nanny in the past and had it confirmed by HmRC in writing.

She invoiced us at the end of each month, used her own equipment such as books, pushchairs and crucially worked for other families too.

In fact, I know of several self employed nannies who are all ofsted registered and it is all above board.

My understanding is they have to dictate the hours and must work for other families too because if they're working for one sole family, they become your employee.

I employ term-time only staff (not nannying). We have to pay them for 5 weeks' holiday a year, the rest of the school holidays are unpaid. We mutually agreed to pro-rata the annual salary so we pay the same amount every month. It makes it easier for the staff to budget and it's easy for the payroll too.

you can calculate the holiday entitlement here www.gov.uk/calculate-your-holiday-entitlement

Treadsoftly - 5.6 weeks is normal for an all year round employee. They work 46.4 weeks per year.

A term time only employee works 39 weeks per year, assuming any holiday is not taken during term time (so actually only 7.4 weeks short of a year round employee) and is entitled to just under 5 weeks paid holiday - I'm unsure of the exact amount but think it's about 4.8.

Nannynick has detailed the best way to work it out.

It doesn't matter what hmrc or your friend says - she can't be se if she works for you when you decide the hours days pay etc

You will be the one in the wrong - you will hey the possible £3k fine and you will get the prison sentence if the courts decide to go that far

Holiday as nick calculated

Employment and Tax laws are different things.

She is not deciding how many hours she works. She is not deciding when to do the work, where to do the work. Plus you could if you wanted to, tell her what to do. This does not point towards self employment.

HMRC don't seem to stop someone running their own business if they really insist on doing so. However a business with one client is not a business. If/when they checked up on, then if they still only have one client, HMRC may decide that it is not really a business and that they are an employee of that client.

Don't put yourself in that position. Get advice from a nanny payroll company. I had a lovely chat with NannyPAYE earlier today and they talk to people about this sort of thing all the time, so give them a call and talk it through with someone who knows.

Has this person told you what pay they would want if they were able to do it on a self employed basis? Or are you deciding what salary to pay?

Holiday Calculation:

10 hours a week, 38 weeks a year (your school year may be longer/shorter)

Assuming they take no holiday during term time
10 hours a week (A) for 38 weeks of the year (B), they work a total of 380
hours a year (C), or 8.19 hours a week (D) over 46.4 weeks of the year. The holiday entitlement is
5.6 weeks x 8.19 hours a week = 45.87 hours holiday for the year (E).

A payroll company can help with holiday pay calculations including what happens if a term time employee takes time off during term time.

Why would it be less beneficial than using a childminder?

You know her.
She is able to do the short hours you need.
She is willing to do term time only.
She would do the care at your home, so you don't need to worry about going somewhere to collect your children.

You can outsource the payroll, so you don't need to worry about the admin of that. There is some cost to doing it but is it typically under £20 a month.

Have a chat to a nanny payroll company, they don't bite. Research realistically what your annual cost is likely to be for having a nanny, vs using the services of a childminder, vs an after-school club. Look at the pros and cons of each option and consider what is affordable and where your children will be happiest.

5 weeks is a normal allowance for a FT all year round employee though?