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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

Self enployed nannies

31 replies

wizzywig · 17/05/2015 18:25

hi all. i will be employing a nanny for 10hrs a week. She is working around 20 hours for another family. i thought i would still have to set up payroll as a PAYE employee but hmrc says nanny's who work for 2 families can be self employed. is that right? www.gov.uk/au-pairs-employment-law/nannies

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Karoleann · 17/05/2015 20:11

That's quite interesting and new! I noticed they've updated the au pair section too.

Great, much easier for you. Its very easy to register as self employed and generally she pays a bit less tax too.

PenguinsandtheTantrumofDoom · 17/05/2015 20:10

Sorry, posted too soon.

.... in your scenario.

PenguinsandtheTantrumofDoom · 17/05/2015 20:09

I can't do the non - clicky link on my phone, but Gov.uk is often inaccurate these days. It gives the impression it is run on a shoe string by interns.

As an ex employment lawyer I would be very dubious they could be self employed.

nannynick · 17/05/2015 20:03

At the moment there is no definitive answer but the Gov.uk site does clearly state that you (as the potential employer) can not ask them to become self employed. So it has to be entirely up to the nanny.

nannynick · 17/05/2015 20:02

Useful read is the ESM500 parts of the Status Manual.

www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/esmmanual/ESM0500.htm

nannynick · 17/05/2015 19:50

I would not trust that information. The Employment Status manual is huge and any one factor alone does not determine employment status. So how Gov.uk can say that is beyond me.

Are you deciding how much to pay?
Are you deciding when they do the work?
Are they able to say no to coming into work, such as offering a different day instead (which is what a cleaner would do)?

I would view them as an employee if the hours are set and regular.
If it is more like ad-hoc babysitting then that would I feel be different.

Whilst HMRC might allow a nanny to be self employed, does the nanny want to be self employed? Do they want to run their own business, not have entitlement to paid holiday or other statutory rights? Do they want to be doing accounts and a tax return?

Do you want to stop another person (probably a young women) from having employment rights - things that women especially have campaigned for years to get?

At 10 hours a week there is unlikely to be any Employers NI. So costs you need to consider are things like:
Payroll Admin (£140 a year, or do it yourself)
1% employers pension contribution (might not be until 2017/18)
Statutory Sick Pay (don't think this can be claimed back as it could in the past).

Yes it is a pain being an employer but it gives the worker more rights and you have more control over what they do, when they do it.

Hard to tell someone who is their own boss what they should be doing!

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