Nanny may want to return with own child

I think the problem seems to be that her job is in childcare, so the lines between work and caring for children are blurred. Most people in most jobs would not consider taking their babies to work - in an office or shop for example.

You take maternity leave, then you sort out someone/where to look after your baby when it ends and you return to your original job again.

She may work with children anyway but she should be expecting to return to the same job she left, without taking her baby with her. Same as the rest of us.

OP I would just call her and say that although you might have got it wrong, you were picking up things that suggest she was expecting to bring her baby along. Therefore you are contacting her now to check whether this is the case and if so, to tell her that won't work for you and that you want her to return to the previous job role as it was. She will either then say yes or no. Simple.

There is a difference between caring for 3 of somebody else's children, and looking after your own baby whilst caring for 2 of somebody else's. It is not unreasonable to feel that the nanny maybe slightly distracted by her own baby to provide the same level of care that was being provided before. (I'm not for one second saying this would be the case, I'm merely suggesting that is how the OP may be feeling, especially as one of her DC has suspected SN).

I see and I agree :)

MovingOn, what I really meant to emphasise is that the nanny is a professional. It's her job to cope in the same way that childminders and nannies elsewhere cope all the time.

There's the definite possibility that this nanny has managed perfectly well with similar ages and stages in a previous job.

Well yes I can believe that. Seeing as I'm not completely hysterical or a bit dim

I don't think you seriously meant to suggest either

You need to chat to her. Would you consider her bringing her baby two days a week maybe?
It's ok if the answer is no, but it's something to consider maybe.

'As an aside some of the posts on here about the op bring precious are just ludicrous'

I think it was the talk of 'neglect' that led to the 'precious' accusations. Any nanny can care for three children without one of them being neglected. A nanny feeding a baby while helping with homework instead of concentrating solely on homework doesn't actually constitute neglect believe it or not!

But Tanith if people wanted a childminder they would choose a childminder and all the pros and cons that go with that.

The op has chosen to employee a nanny because, one presumes, the pros and cons of employing a nanny suit her family's needs better.

How anyone else manages is irrelevant. She didn't choose an option where that is a factor.

As an aside some of the posts on here about the op bring precious are just ludicrous. Of course it makes a difference having an extra child along - would you be ok if your child's teacher or your dentist was looking after their baby while working? Or your cleaner brought her toddler along? You don't think it would impinge on their ability to do their job as well as before?

Just because the job is looking after children it doesn't mean she has any more attention or time to go round. An extra child will mean less time and less attention for all the children. For some employer/employees that is fine, the reduction in pay is adequate compensation but for others it doesn't suit them and there's nothing wrong with that.

'Am surprised people think returning to work with a baby is something that should be specifically ruled out before maternity leave. The assumption, and the law, is that the same job as before on the same conditions'

Legally you are correct. However, in your OP you said On the other hand, I do not want her to assume a NWOC arrangement is a given, which is what she seems to be doing at the moment. So you suspect that her assumption is that a NWOC is a go. The decent thing to do would have been to tell her that you don't want a NWOC as soon as you realised that she thought that. She shouldn't have assumed, but that doesn't change the fact that you strongly suspect she has assumed and haven't told her she's wrong. A brief, clear chat before she went on ML could have avoided all this. That's why people are saying you should have specifically ruled out her coming back with the baby. It shouldn't really be surprising to you!

Childminders cope perfectly well with up to 6 children under the age of 8, one of which may well be a baby and another may well have additional needs.
They, and your nanny, are professional childcarers.

By all means, it's your decision as to whether you allow your nanny to bring her baby, but why on earth would you think she won't cope?

Just ask her what her plans for returning are. If she says bringing her child you say "sorry but that doesn't work for us. We love having you as our nanny and we're ready to welcome you back but only on the same terms as before.".

A couple of points - you cannot make substantial changes to her job role after ordinary maternity leave (the first 6 months) ends. Any changes made after that period (additional maternity leave) must be reasonably justified and she should have the same terms and conditions (eg status, pay, weekly hours etc). So you cannot say "we only need you for 30 hours a week I nstead of 45" but you could say "we need you to work 12 hours on Mondays and Tuesdays so we will give you a half day on Fridays so you still work 45 hours per week" if your working patterns had changed. If the changes are substantial you may need to offer redundancy instead but with the caveat that as part of the process you offer her the "new" job on a trail basis (there would be no break in service obviously).

What is her notice period? She still has to give that in full if she decides to quit which is why many nanny employers insist on 3 months.

We had a nanny who went onto maternity leave and then has come back to us with her own child (only 1 or 2 days a week though). I don't think you are under any legal obligation to have her return to work with her own child at all. I think if she wanted to come back to work without her child and you wanted to keep your maternity cover then I think that could be considered discrimination if the job and your requirements haven't changed. I have 3 children (only 1 under 5) and the others are at school. I do the school run and then she arrives and looks after the baby and her own child until end of school and picks up the others. If there are clubs etc.. then I do the pick up and drop offs and she stays with the other children. I think it works for us because I am at home too and I can pick up some of the slack. She works the remaining 3 days sole-charge with another family who have 3 children. I think she does find it a struggle and they are 9,6 and 2. Her husband comes and picks up the baby at 4.30 after his work finishes. I think she wouldn't be able to logistically cope with tea and bathtime with all the children. She definitely has less time time for the children and (quite naturally) spends a lot of time tending to her own child. She also takes much more time off as (like all babies!) her child gets ill a lot. For us it works as if she has to have the odd week off then we can manage. I am at home so can do the homework etc.. myself. She is an amazing nanny and we think the world of her and her child and while it does have some niggles we are very happy. I think at some point you need to have chat with your own nanny and see what she wants to do and whether it will fit in with your requirements. i think that 'nanny with own child' can work well but generally when the children are older and/or when it is a family who have only 1 or 2 children (so the own child can be a playmate).

Would she get paid the same if she brought her own baby with her?

• A third baby for the nanny to care for, not for the OP to care for.

"OP - the same way it would work if you had a third baby and your Nanny looked after that one too."

I don't think it would. A third baby for the OP to care for would be the OP's choice and not something foisted upon her. Prioritising a baby, as will sometimes be inevitable, over older children is one thing when that baby is your own and quite another when the baby belongs to someone else. The OP pays the nanny to prioritise her children, not the nanny's.

A NWOC arrangement would be most undesirable to me.

That all makes sense and you don't have to justify not wanting a NWOC here. What I don't understand is why you have allowed an expectation of a NWOC arrangement to grow without challenging it.

Has the nanny said anything more specific than what is in your OP: "she has said both that she would need to come back to work soon and that she would not put her baby in nursery" - she may have family who are going to look after her baby, but that isn't very likely. After hearing she wouldn't put her baby in nursery would have been a perfectly natural point to query her assumption - it just seems a bit odd that you have such communication barriers in place that you couldn't just talk about it.

Not sure how old your kids are but I look after my 20 month old nephew every Friday and my 6 year old son with asd.not sure how your child is effected by certain issues but I have a lots of tears and tantrums and can't leave them alone for a minute!my son doesn't like my nephew babbling or playing with his toys or turning the xbox on and off.we are finally getting there after a couple of months but still hard work.maybe offer a trial day first before making a decision? We had a childminder go off on maternity leave and we sorted all our holiday to cover it only for her to call and say she realised she would make more on smp.annoyed us as we tried to work round her only to feel she knew she wasn't coming back at the beginning of her pregnancy so could have let us know.

What are you doing for childcare at the moment? Temp nanny? Would she want the job perm tho legally you can't offer it till nanny lets you know she isn't coming back - which as I said she may say yes she will come
Back without the baby while looking for another job and literally tell you a few weeks before she is due back that she isn't returning to work

I can't beleive you never had this chat - so not surprising that your nanny thinks she can bring baby with her if you Havnt said she can't

As I said in my first post this needs to be discussed ASAP

You need to have this conversation as soon as possible.
You need to make some time in which you can talk face to face without your children there.
If you're open to considering a NWOC arrangement, what are your "red line" conditions beyond which would be unacceptable? How much less would you expect to pay?

If you would just definitely not consider NWOC she really needs to know right now. I don't think you're at fault for not stating this fact before she went, but now you are aware that she is under the impression that this is the plan, every day that goes by without you challenging her assumption could be taken as tacit consent. You aren't obliged to change her employment to suit her wishes but you do have to communicate with her. Stop being avoidy and talk to her.

How might your DS with suspected SN take to the addition? May be positive? What are the nature of his difficulties? No need to go into detail but if his needs require that bit more attention, it would be understandable if you had a chat with her on that basis.

I don't think it's precious - there's a reason that no NWOC I've ever heard of charges as much as one without. Any of us who have cared for 3 children at a time, especially with an age gap, know that there is physically no way to give each child as much attention as if there were only 2 kids. For larger families, there are of course lots of benefits to having 3+ as well, but these are for the overall family and sometimes in the (very) long term, but and aren't necessarily benefit you see when it's not a sibling.

That said, having a baby around isn't such a bad thing, if it's an easy baby it could be a lovely addition to the other kids, especially if she's otherwise a great nanny and a part of your family, and she would surely be a lot more engaged if she's not having to leave her own child for 13 hours a day or work + commute.

Definitely call acas and work out where you stand and what you want, before having a frank chat with her.

You think your dc will be neglected? You sound very precious op.