Page 4 | A question: What annoys you about finding childcare?

ambu · 2015-02-16T23:30:08+00:00

Hi everyone. I'm new to mumsnet, but am am an entrepreneur looking to build a service that makes it easier to find and book childcare (both nannies and babysitters) online and/or via an app. What I would love to know is: >How do you typically find care for your kids? >How often do you need childcare? >At what age would you start to look (if at all!) for professional childcare? >What annoys you about the current 'finding and using childcare' experience? If anyone has a few minutes to help out then it would be super appreciated! Thanks.

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Original poster

ambu · 18/02/2015 06:30

@Cindy34 - good point.

It doesn't necessarily seem right to charge the parent a high fee per booking, or the £14.95 per quarter if they aren't using it constantly.

A fairer service for both parties would seem to be a slightly higher hourly rate, and a commission taken by the agency.

That way the parent ends up paying more or less the same, the sitter receives the same (but gets more bookings), and everyone is happier. It's also far more transparent.

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Cindy34 · 18/02/2015 06:13

I would read legislation to do with recruitment and employment agencies. There are strict rules with regard to what work seekers can be be charged for by an agency.

Existing websites/apps which list babysitters are purely advertising venues, so get around the problem in that way. Sitters I don't think charges the work seeker, they make money from booking and membership fees charged to parents.

Original poster

ambu · 17/02/2015 21:45

@OutragedFromLeeds:

Exactly right. I think any service needs to be making life better both for the sitter and for the parent - if not, there's no point!

The idea behind a commission from the sitter would be to provide the kind of checks necessary to allow them to get more bookings, which would be explained clearly. They would have to be getting more money, otherwise there would be no incentive for them to use it.

In terms of 'why would they stay?', if the majority of the babysitting work was 'ad-hoc', then there's the potential to get more work through using an agency like this, and hence to make more money.

The sitter going into a stranger's house is an interesting point. You can do a lot of good by forcing parents to log-in with a social network, which should help build up trust on the sitter side, I imagine. I need to check with more sitters about their thoughts on this, but it looks like currently agencies don't vet the parents, right?

In terms of the payments, you bring up an interesting point - I believe this is usually set by the agency, but it's important to be fair to both parties (cancellation policies, extensions to the time etc).

The point of 'being chosen' is another interesting one. I understand that from a parent's point of view, you want that sitter to be confirmed as soon as you make the booking, but from the sitter's point of view, you want to have the choice. Tricky one. What do you think about giving a sitter a (let's say) 10 / 30 / 60 minute window to accept the job? How does that sound from a parent's point of view?

Just above here on this thread lotsofcheese said that they didn't use Sitters (as a parent) because it was too expensive, but your experience is that Sitters find that they are underpaid. Sounds like someone is taking a far bigger cut than they should be...I'm a firm believer that both parties should be happy, but it sounds here like the only happy party is the middleman!

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Original poster

ambu · 17/02/2015 21:45

@OutragedFromLeeds:

Exactly right. I think any service needs to be making life better both for the sitter and for the parent - if not, there's no point!

The idea behind a commission from the sitter would be to provide the kind of checks necessary to allow them to get more bookings, which would be explained clearly. They would have to be getting more money, otherwise there would be no incentive for them to use it.

In terms of 'why would they stay?', if the majority of the babysitting work was 'ad-hoc', then there's the potential to get more work through using an agency like this, and hence to make more money.

The sitter going into a stranger's house is an interesting point. You can do a lot of good by forcing parents to log-in with a social network, which should help build up trust on the sitter side, I imagine. I need to check with more sitters about their thoughts on this, but it looks like currently agencies don't vet the parents, right?

In terms of the payments, you bring up an interesting point - I believe this is usually set by the agency, but it's important to be fair to both parties (cancellation policies, extensions to the time etc).

The point of 'being chosen' is another interesting one. I understand that from a parent's point of view, you want that sitter to be confirmed as soon as you make the booking, but from the sitter's point of view, you want to have the choice. Tricky one. What do you think about giving a sitter a (let's say) 10 / 30 / 60 minute window to accept the job? How does that sound from a parent's point of view?

Just above here on this thread lotsofcheese said that they didn't use Sitters (as a parent) because it was too expensive, but your experience is that Sitters find that they are underpaid. Sounds like someone is taking a far bigger cut than they should be...I'm a firm believer that both parties should be happy, but it sounds here like the only happy party is the middleman!

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OutragedFromLeeds · 17/02/2015 21:04

'Even if you charge a cut to the sitter, if they get more work through using your agency, then they should be happy, right?'

It depends on the cut. If they end up doing more work for about the same money then....no, not happy. I think you'll find that the people who work for Sitters are people who don't have a built up business yet. Once they get that, maybe by initially sitting for you, why would they stay?

Then think about the sitter going into a strangers house. It's all well and good checking the nanny, but what about the family? Why would I take the risk of going to a home where I don't know the family or the children when I could babysit for someone I know/know of. It works both ways. When someone recommends a sitter to you, they're also recommending you to the sitter.

Then you need to think about what happens if the family cancel last minute. Have they paid already? What if they cancel an hour before do I lose my money for the evening or do you pay me? What if they come home early? Do they still pay for the whole night? What if they 'choose' me from the website, but I'm booked? Are you going to pressure me to take the job?

It's a two way street. Parents who use Sitters review it fairly positively ime. Nannies who work for them? Not so much. I don't know anyone who works for them/is on their list who doesn't do it as a last resort i.e. they take any personal bookings first and only if they're free/need the money desperately will they take the Sitters booking. Who wants to be badly treated and underpaid?!

If you can make your company more appealing to the sitter, whilst keeping the parents happy, you'll have found your niche.

Original poster

ambu · 17/02/2015 20:09

Final question and then I'll shut up for a while :)

For those of you that either would book or already have booked childcare through an agency without meeting the sitter, what kind of checks would you require to give you sufficient confidence that that particular individual was ok to look after your kids?

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Original poster

ambu · 17/02/2015 20:06

@OutragedfromLeeds. Great question about what extra would be offered to the carer.

I think the main thing that you'd offer would be the opportunity to (ultimately) make more money. If the entire process gets easier, then more people will be needing sitting services, and there will be more work for sitters. Even if you charge a cut to the sitter, if they get more work through using your agency, then they should be happy, right?

There's also lots of other services that you could offer the carer, but I think the most important thing would be that they could make more money.

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Original poster

ambu · 17/02/2015 20:02

Also - how do people currently pay for babysitting?

I remember when I used to do it 15+ years ago, everything relating to money was quite awkward:

-As a babysitter, how do I set my price?
-As a parent, how do I know what I should pay?
-As a babysitter, how do I ask for payment?
-Both for sitter & parent, what if I don't have right right change?

Has anyone ever paid online for childcare yet?

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Original poster

ambu · 17/02/2015 20:02

Also - how do people currently pay for babysitting?

I remember when I used to do it 15+ years ago, everything relating to money was quite awkward:

-As a babysitter, how do I set my price?
-As a parent, how do I know what I should pay?
-As a babysitter, how do I ask for payment?
-Both for sitter & parent, what if I don't have right right change?

Has anyone ever paid online for childcare yet?

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Original poster

ambu · 17/02/2015 20:00

@purplepumkins - not necessarily an app to find childcare.

What I'm trying to find out is whether parents' lives would really be made easier if there was a trusted service that allowed them to quickly see a selection of high quality (and vetted) babysitters, and book them without having to subscribe to (and pay for) a service.

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Original poster

ambu · 17/02/2015 19:57

@lotsofcheese. Interesting to hear that you've heard of them but the price has put you off.

Is this their subscription, their credit card / booking fees, or the cost of the actual nannies?

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Original poster

ambu · 17/02/2015 19:56

@18yearstooold. OK, would that be the case if you had that particular sitter recommended by a friend? You'd still want them to meet your kid(s) before agreeing? If it was only for 1 night (let's say), wouldn't that be quite annoying for the sitter?

The issue here is that it seems there should be an easy way for there to be an agency that makes it easier for parents to choose exactly who they want to sit for their kid(s), and that they should be able to get a good enough idea of quality/fit without having to meet and interview them first, especially if it is only just for one night.

I completely appreciate that with a nanny this is a very different case, but for a temp babysitter / after school care for a couple of days, surely it becomes a little bit less important.

The vital thing is that the sitter has background checks, but is a visit strictly necessary beforehand if it's only a temp job?

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Original poster

ambu · 17/02/2015 19:48

@Millionprammiles - that's really interesting, and thanks for your extended answer.

So correct me if I'm wrong, but you have previously used a sitter that you've never met before, and just trusted the agency to have done the appropriate checks? Did they have reviews from people that you knew/trusted?

My hypothesis (and having spoken to friends with young sons and daughters) is that the process of finding a babysitter currently takes such a long time - and in many cases relies on you having a good network around you - that many young parents would rather just stay in.

Is that the case for anyone?

In terms of Sitters, what I've heard from quite a few people is that it's quite a frustrating site to use, and the charges are quite high. Is this true?

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Millionprammiles · 17/02/2015 15:05

Some childcare is easy to find, others less so:

Nurseries, childminders, nannies for regular care can all be found relatively easily using a combination of local recommendations, Ofsted reports, viewing/meeting and established agencies.

Emergency ad-hoc childcare is a bit trickier but there is at least one agency set up specifically for that already. Most parents are able to take the odd ad hoc day off work too.

Before/after school care and holiday care is trickier. There is often a rush for a handful of BC/ASC or suitable CM places. I know many parents who have found it stressful and end up with something unsatisfactory. Holiday clubs are often few and far between, not local or not full days.
There are very few agencies that deal specifically in providing qualified, experienced and suitable childcare in this area.

As for babysitters, I'm one of those parents who has used a sitter I've never met before through an agency. I know quite a few parents who have. (Many of us just didn't go out as a couple for the first 2 years but eventually decided that wasn't much of a relationship).

None of us have family nearby, many of us use nurseries who prohibit their staff from babysitting (this seems to be becoming a thing now in London...) or CMs that aren't willing to do evenings/weekends. The only friends I know who use their nanny to babysit don't live locally so sharing childcare isn't feasible.
The only local recommendations for babysitters I've had have been for young au pairs or teenage daughters. I preferred to leave my 2 yr old with a very experienced ex-nanny in her 40s instead (who has turned out to be lovely and is now a regular). Once dd is older I'll probably be more willing to use someone less experienced but only if I know the parents/employers.

Unless you're going to offer something more than Sitters though, there doesn't seem to be much of a gap in that market for babysitting.

If you nail after school/school holiday care though you'll be inundated.

OutragedFromLeeds · 17/02/2015 13:31

People will use childcarers they've never met before, but they want them thoroughly checked and that service is already provided by agencies like Sitters etc. There are loads and loads of nanny/babysitting agencies so I don't think there is a massive gap in the market for that kind of thing. I don't see how you can make it easier/cheaper than it currently is without sacrificing the standard of checks being carried out. I can't imagine there are many people who would employ someone they've never met who hasn't been thoroughly checked.

You've also got the trouble of finding the babysitters. Most nannies/childminders who babysit find their work through word of mouth and personal recommendation. Where is the motivation to give an agency/third party a cut? What would you offer the carer?

18yearstooold · 17/02/2015 12:30

Ambu I wouldn't trust them no, with either my children or my house

When I've used childminders or wrap around care then I've made several visits, got references etc
With an agency they send who is available so I wouldn't get the same level of choice

People I've used for babysitting have been family, staff from wrap around care and, as my dc have got older, I'll now use teenagers I know through scouts and guides but I've only used 3 and the youngest was 17

Purplepumpkins · 17/02/2015 10:51

An app to find child care? I don't think i can think of anyone who would use an app to employ a babysitter or have a misunderstood.

lotsofcheese · 17/02/2015 08:45

There is already a national babysitting agency: sitters.co.uk

Haven't used them as it's more expensive & don't get to meet the person before.

Heels99 · 17/02/2015 08:42

Yes I would use a babysitter recommended by someone else subject to the checks I Previously mentioned. But I don't think it works like that with an agency, my friend uses a sitter through an agency and she gets whoever is available. Word of mouth babysitter recommendations are usually for babysitters that are locally known rather than through an agency.

Original poster

ambu · 17/02/2015 08:28

@18yearstooold - is that because you just wouldn't trust them?
If you had positive feedback from a friend/colleague/family member, would you be ok with using a babysitter you didn't know then?

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18yearstooold · 17/02/2015 08:13

I would never use a babysitter I didn't know -I'd rather not go out!

Original poster

ambu · 17/02/2015 08:11

Ah gotcha, we posted at the same time :)

If you could see that they were first aid trained and DBS (CRB) checked, would that help?

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Original poster

ambu · 17/02/2015 08:10

@Heels99 - very interesting. Can I ask how come? Would you use one that had been recommended by friends/family/colleagues?

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Heels99 · 17/02/2015 08:10

I would want to know they were first aid trained and crb or whatever the equivalent is now, checked and fully referenced though.

Original poster

ambu · 17/02/2015 08:09

@OutragedFromLeeds - I completely appreciate that. I wasn't saying that it should be easy at all, but rather were there any parts of the experience that frustrated you.

Obviously every parent wants the best possible person looking after their child (whether it's babysitting or a full time nanny), but I am just wondering if there are some annoyances within the process.

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