Would anyone care to share their house rules for nannies/au pairs with me?

oh f**k it I'm just going to set it up ....here goes. It'll be called Au Pair families thread or similar

It was me who suggested the thread originally but I guess some people thought maybe it wasn't necessary.

If you chaps are up for it, I am! Besides this has kind of turned into an informal AP employer thread anyway!

Cloudberry ? I have just read your other post below; and did you mean AP wanted another job in the UK with another family? If so I would be incline to ask her exactly what her expectations are!! Unless she address some of her issues, she will have the same problems else where.

I think my frustration stems from the fact that I expected our AP to have a lot more nouse. She?s 29-30 an Art teacher, fluent English and currently doing child psychology, lived on her own and ran youth clubs. She fairly clueless with the youngest children and not really a ?natural? with kids and does analyse everything they do (equally irritating) but she is chatty, polite and appreciative and working on getting her to help out bit. BUT DH finds her irritating, slow and says she lacks basic initiative?
He believes that AP thinks a lot of the jobs are beneath her rather than her inability. I am sure we will find out soon.

I think an Au pair thread for families is a good idea!!!

God artist67, sympathy sympathy. Isn't it ridiculous how irritating it can all be? I think you really have to spell things out in simple simple english and get them to repeat it back to you to ensure that they have understood. I am now going to be compiling the most anal list for the next time round. It just sometimes seems never ending - they're supposed to be there to help but can end up making more work, which sends frustation levels rocketing.

Our ap is now having a mega whinge about being exhausted and working more than 5 hours a day. I'm afraid we've told if that if she's not happy she can go home. Yes on Mondays she does work more than 5 hours a day, but goes to school 3 mornings a week and gets back at 1.30, then an hour or so for lunch.She doesn't help with bath and bedtime so wht her's problem?! Often I go out for a lot of the day with the kids like I'll be doing on Thursday, so then she'll be here on her own. I don't live my life to a strict routine, the babies aren't old enough yet to have one in the way that they will once school starts; and with a 23 month old and 7 month old life can be hard work - that's motherhood and keeping a house. It really pisses me off that she's been complaining to friends for a while I've found out. We have been bloody good to her in all sorts of ways and it kind of feel like she's chucking it back in our faces. My dh is completely fed up, and if anything else is said, she' s gone. Life's too short to be wound up by a 21 year old French girl. By the way what is the definition of "light housework"? Sounds like a crazy question but useful to know how other people define it.

Earlier someone suggested setting up a thread for AP employers similar to the CM club. I think it'd be a great idea. What does any one else think? I find it incredibly helpful hearing how other people are getting on / dealing with their au pairs.

Thanks Boo - I was thinking of changing from nanny to au pair once dd starts half day nursery - but I'm reading this thread and getting a bit too worried to make the jump

Bluebear - the official line is that APs can have sole charge of kids over 2.
The reality is that you will need to feel comfortable with your AP and I guess you can only know that once you have got to know them.

Dh has just had angry, impatient moment with AP and I take back some of what I said earlier about things improving
All she had to do this evening was tidy up toys and dishes away and it has took her 1hr and 20mins and she also eat his dinner ( after eating her own) I was saving.
During this time I had bathed 3 screaming children, tidied their bedrooms, bathroom, got clothes and prepared bags for the next day and finished homework.

She basically cleared dishes eat his dinner then went to her room. DH come home from work asked her why she ate his dinner and why does she not do the jobs we asked her to do like clearing up toys as per agreement and many other things.

Au pair not happy

Can I ask a slightly off thread question? Do any of you leave the au pair in sole charge of older children e.g. 4 year olds and over? Could they cope with that for 3 hours, or would i be expecting too much?

Hi Cloudberry

Our AP has been with us for a few week; she?s really nice fluent English and really making an effort.

However, I?m so surprised at how slow she is, given her age and the fact she lives on her own. ( took her 1 hour to tidy kitchen and empty the dishwasher). She is currently doing less than 25 hours a week( this will change next week) but still doesn?t manage to get the ironing up to date . I have to keep prompting her and feel like I?m nagging as she will watch me struggle.
I have had a gentle word highlighting the speed she does things, like emptying dishwasher is only a 10mins job and toy tidying ect, and therefore we are not getting out of the house on time. She now realizes how busy I am ? when I work from home I am really working, and not available?. Since then things have improved a little, although she seems petrified of our 3 year old ? who is a very strong character and needs a firm approach, and so far avoided any contact that involves doing something he won?t like.
With the older children, homework is up-to ?date and has does lots of interesting activities with them.
On the whole I would say this is a good start. But I am not sure she will last. I asked her ?is this what she expected ? and the answer was NO. We have cleaner but AP was surprise at how much practical thing she has to do !! Like Ironing, keeping on top of play room and children?s room?s and toy tidying and ect ? beforehand, I sent all a list of all the duties and expectations including jobs she doesn?t do, like cleaning the children?s bathroom. Hovering light house work,which she said she read but underestimated it all. And she does far less than our last AP.

She though most of her time would be devoted to the children, I said ?the idea is that I get some free time to do nice things with the children?

Helloooo ........ Anybody out there?

We found our new au pair on aupairworld.net. In fact, I found her by going through the au pair listings and clicking on the "we're interested in you" button. She'd had over 55 hits so I was rather amazed that she responded to me at all. She's training to be a primary school teacher and had had nursery school training too so I'm really keeping fingers crossed here for a very different experience . My sister in law only ever has German au pairs for their efficiency and the fact they generallly seem to have more experience with children. I know that sounds odd but it's something to do with having to have training or experience at kindergarten level if they want to work with children. Well that's what I think she told me anyway ...! I liked her responses to basic questions I asked her and I suppose at the end of the day it's pot luck and you have to go with a gut feeling. Interestingly my dh didn't like the look of our current ap in the photos she sent us, but I overrode him because at the end of August when we were looking she was the only option we had, ie the only person who had expressed an interest. Just shows I should listen to him next time!

A week after I told our ap that we were thinking of going it alone in the New Year, I asked her if she would like to come back to us if we changed our mind and like yours she shrugged and said she didn't know if she would be coming back to England at all, having told me a few days before that she'd like to get another job here. So I thought well stuff you then, and stopped feeling guilty; and lo this other girl appeared.

What irritates me is that instead of being a help I seem to be clearing up behind her while she either sits and watches (!) while ostensibly "feeding" dd who is perfectly capable of feeding herself, or stuff is left half done when she decided she's done for the day. Grrrrr .... I must be more assertive here. This evening she left the kitchen looking like a bomb had hit it. I was feeding the dogs when she pops her head round the door and tells me she's off out for the evening. That really got to me. My dh thinks I'm over-reacting, but I think it's pretty rude not to say to me " If you don't need anything else doing, is it OK to go out now?" She was at school all the morning so it's not like she's been slaving since dawn. Perhaps I am over-reacting I don't know. Anyway I must stop ranting now. It is a high class problem after all ....!!!! But I do know how you feel.

hi cloudberry - well, I'm still not sure if we're keeping ours or not. I asked her straight out how she felt about coming back after Christmas (she's going home then) and she indicated she wasn't really sure, which to me means she's pretty much planning on not coming back. On our side we've been going back and forth about whether to keep her or not, so maybe this is for the best.

She is still very nice with my 1 year old, but half-term was a bit of a disaster with her basically unable to look after my 4-year old with any success at all, meaning I had to take a bunch of unplanned time off work to cover. I have pretty much abandoned the idea of getting her to do any housework other than ironing and very basic stuff like unloading the dishwasher and laundry. She has an attitude problem in several areas (e.g., invited her to eat with us on the weekend, which she happily accepted, only to bolt down her dinner in 10 minutes and stuff her dishes in the dishwasher with never a thank-you nor an offer to help clean up...needless to say we won't be offering again!) and seems completely unable to accept constructive criticism - and I wouldn't even call it criticism, it's stuff like:

Me: "X, I wanted to remind you that Baby now needs 8 oz in his bottles, rather than 7 (this after I had told her the day before and she'd gone ahead and made the smaller bottles again anyway)
Her: "You never told me that."
Me: "I did, but maybe you just misunderstood."
Her: "No, you definitely never told me."

Not really sure how to deal with this, but obviously it's not going to change.

I'd be interested to know how you found your new German au pair? We are thinking of trying to have a nanny instead, but since it's only part-time, I'm not sure how much luck we'll have finding someone (we're not in london). I found our current au pair on greataupair.com, which was also how I found our previous really wonderful au pair, but both times I've used it I ended up wasting a lot of time going back and forth with au pairs who eventually blew us off, for a variety of reasons. I don't think I have the time or patience to go through that again now.

Mumpbump, how's it going with your new au pair? I'd be really interested to know. Also: MizZan have you decided to keep your one on after Christmas? and artist67 how is your new au pair? I don't know if any of you will come back on this thread but as I said, I'd love to know. Our one is definitely going before Christmas. We have found a new German girl who is starting in the New Year so I'm hoping I've learnt a lot from how I've handled the expereince with our aurrent au pair. She is really turning out to be unsatisfactory, just simply taking the piss which is making me feel extremely . Very slap dash and lazy and quite arrogant. My dh suggested we ask her to leave but I feel I must give her the benefit of the doubt and sit down and tell her I'm not happy. If there is then no improvement well maybe getting her to leave is best. 6 weeks is a long time to spend feeling so wound up by someone that you want to scream everytime they open their mouth!! Really feeling pissed off about it right now and wanted to let off steam.

Thanks for this - I have just used this thread to put together a list of Rules for our au pair who arrives next Tuesday... Very helpful although some of the stories are a bit scary...

Oh no problem with looking for boyfriends on the net or going out clubbing i thought the same at first. but she wasn't looking for BF materialor going out clubbing. The sites were sleezy stuff, I just think she had a lot problems or worse. I would never trust her alone in my home while I was on hoilday or babysitting with the children.

It really depends on the AP though. One of the best APs I ever had used to stay out late, and go clubbing every week, and stay out nights with her boyfriend. But she was very professional about her job, always there on time, and always gave 100% to the children. I cant really complain about them looking for boyfriends on the internet when Im doing the same thing myself lol.

Wouldnt put up with surfing the internet in work time though. My employer wont let me do it!

For me, it took a few AP experiences to realize the lengths I needed to go to make sure APs meet our needs, and started to resent parting with my hard earned cash. I also try and work with what they can do very well, like some sports, or music, or baking with the children, and now use a cleaner to make sure housework gets done properly. Equally some jobs they have to get used to doing, like the ironing and I insist it?s done to a decent standard and will show AP time- after- time if necessary. I would definitely check up on AP from time to time, unannounced visits from my family and friends ect.

I have made a few ( massive) blunders especially with last AP ? (called Kat) that only lasted 3 weeks. Previous AP helped with recruiting, and in retrospect she was ?sounding alarm bells? AP spoke to Kat on the phone, and said she got the picture that a few things didn?t add up. However I took for granted her account of her childcare experience and rang her last family who verified this, and gave a wonderful reference. I later found out it was a fake family and was in fact her Aunt living in the UK. I can?t say too much, but I became suspicious long before this happened. Our children were AP last priority, and would stop what she doing taking calls or text on her mobile and run off to check mail on the computer, when should have been looking after the children. She also would go out at night and not come home until V.late with no explanation!! So I decided checked up on what she was doing, and turns out she was meeting up with men, I think she had met on the internet, she had only been here 10 days and one evening AP told me she was going for a walk (didn?t yet know anyone in the area) rang to say she wasn?t coming home that night. I had a serious discussion with AP things went from bad to worse and asked her to leave immediately, after sorting out her travel arrangements. It was such a reief and believe me there was no innocent explantions

The up shot is, that I would have found out sooner or later, and no real harm done, but no doubt would have given me loads of problems in the long term. If this is true - She is now somewhere in Midlands as an AP with a single parent family and of course, has not given me her address details.

Reading this is making me cringe as I think of the things I have let our last two AP's get away with - I must be the wimpiest person out there. Definitely very strange that can take control of very serious situations at work but worry about upsetting a 21 year old.We have only had AP's since children school age so ours is a different situation, but we have had the p**s taken out of us.We were just so keen to make them happy,I think we felt so sorry for them when they first arrived. With the latest one - only been here ten days or so - we have made an EXTREMELY comprehensive listof duties. which looked very intimidting but is working so far(but it is very early days and I have been off work a lot so have been able to supervise)It is hard for me to set an exact timetable as DH and I work shifts, however I am definitely getting tougher - for example we never put limits on internet use as it costs nothing extra,but the last one spent so much time on it that it used to raise my hackles every time I saw her on it - she used to stand literally inches from me watching what I was doing hovering for me to get off when I was using the computer.Well the study door has a lock on it now.One occassion in particular springs to mind when I was using computer - the icon flashed to say she had an MSN (if thats the correct terminology -I dont use MSN) and she actually reached over to the keyboard/mouse to try and view it whilst I was actually reading something on screen! That was the first time I actually had a cross word with her. Other examples of poor behaviour include being asleep upstairs whilst children getting their own tea, which consisted of breakfast cereal.Not letting the dogs out all day so they ended up messing in the house by back door, which was left stinking the house out for hours.And I could go on.However I blame myself for not taking control of this situation and supervising closely, which has now changed.Our secret weapon is that DH has quite unpredictable hours and can arrive home unexpectedly after been at work for just a few hours(only to return to work later that day)I have emphasised this to AP so she realises she could be caught out at any time sleeping on the job for example.Also recently widowed fil has a lot of time on his hands and he is going to call at the house randomly to visit children, do little odd jobs around the house etc.iknow this is a bit nanny-cam-ish but its tough. Must say however both girls saving grace was that the children liked both of them,which I suppose, as I dont work at home, is the most important thing.

Defiantly a detailed list works wonders for me, it compensates for lack of initiative. when ours is on duty, she must be available (downstairs with us not waiting on standby in her room)for helping out. Even if she has finished tidying the toys, there are endless other things she can help with.

It?s always worth finding out what you AP is good at: If you?re unlucky like me, then it would be,
Very good at - Telling lies, watching endless T.V from Teletubbie?s to Alan Titchmarsh. Text messaging with one hand, and smoke with the other, (making lovely little puff circles)
French manicures.
Not very good at - speaking English, housework and smiling.
Au pair only lasted 3weeks, and left me with a legacy, and indentations of her bottom the sofa.

I dream about our once brilliant Au pair, that enjoyed Ironing as much as I hated it, had bags patients with the children and could play the guitar, did french and Science homework with DS. She did look half asleep most the time, but was in fact really on the ball, and we liked her very much.

All week, I have had my fingers (and toes) crossed for our new arrival at weekend. I am currently making my AP to-do-list and smartening up the house, and bribing the children to be extra nice as I?m extremely optimistic and really desperate.

cloudberry, we too are on our second au pair and having some of the same issues as you. We had a wonderful experience with our first one, who spoke poor English but had a great attitude with both kids and housework. This one likes looking after my one-year-old (which is how she spends most of her time since I work part-time), but struggles with our older son (who's fortunately in school most of the time) and is hopeless with housework/cooking.

What I would say is:

1. Don't worry too much about your DH's opinion. I too have a DH who is out at work from 7 till 7 and then comes home and thinks he knows how things should be run in the house while he's out. Well, he doesn't. He also thinks our au pair has a good deal, and she does, in many ways, but you know, the point is not to make the au pair your slave, but to have a happy relationship with her where both she and you are satisfied. I think my DH sometimes forgets about the first part of that equation.

2. I too work at home and I find the only way to make this viable is to shut myself away when I have work to do. This has 2 advantages - first, I get the work done, and second, the au pair learns to cope with the kid(s) on her own, which she needs to do. If I hear yelling/wailing/whatever, and it goes on for more than a few minutes, then I do pop down to see what's going on and what I can do to help/advise. But I pop right back up again shortly afterwards.

If you feel the au pair does not really know what to do with the kids, suggest things to her. You may have the paints in the cupboard, but she doesn't really think of using them, for example, and your children are too young to think of it on their own too. So, maybe you say to her, "It's raining today, so why don't you do some painting with the children?" and then show her where the stuff is. She is an au pair and not a nanny - unless you're very lucky she is unlikely to have lots of great ideas for entertaining your kids on rainy days.

3. Definitely do not give the au pair the jobs you love doing yourself, like bathing the kids! I made this mistake for a while - it's totally pointless. Have her use that time to help catch up on housework instead, if you need it.

4. A strict schedule works wonders. Does your au pair have set hours? Does she know exactly what she's supposed to be doing, at those times? For our current au pair, I find that giving general instructions like "make sure the bins are always empty" produces no results. Instead, I've now tried to be more specific, saying "when baby is sleeping, this is what we need you to do: Monday - empty bins, take out recycling; Tuesday - iron; etc." Still does not get perfect results, but better.

5. If she's eating with you, then she should help out. I told ours that if I was cooking, and she wanted to eat with us, we would appreciate it if she would either help with preparation or help with doing the dishes. So, she helps with the dishes.

6. Ours also works all day, one day a week (she is an au pair plus), and while I think she finds it tough, I don't think this is at all unusual to ask your au pair to do. If yours really feels hard done by because she has to work a full day, maybe there is a way you can alleviate the problem. If you can, maybe give her a break for an hour or an hour and a half, and play with the kids yourself during that time? That's what I'm trying to do this week with ours, since both are home for half-term.

I hope this helps a little. We are also struggling a bit with our au pair, and not sure whether we'll keep her on after Christmas, but I think we're making some progress. I hope so, anyway! Good luck.

mm I dont know, it might get a bit us and them. There are loads of threads about employing an AP.

Hi

Just an idea does anyone think it'd be good to set up a thread for AP employers similar to the CM club?

Maybe you need to define her day in terms of what hours you expect her to work, rather than what jobs?
Hopefully you'd be luckier next time.

Thank you for your comments. She has been with us for 6 weeks this Tuesday coming. I think the suggestions of making her a list of things to do with children and also in house are good ideas. House stuff though is really basic: keep bins empty, esp ones with dirty nappies: tidy up after children particularly at the end of the day - vital for some semblance of order: keep on top of washing; push hoover round house and keep kitchen tidy. As we don't live in a palace it's not really too demanding. I suppose I'd love someone who is able to use their initiative and look to see what needs doing next instead of coming and saying to me "I've finished now, can I go on the internet?". My response to that is "Oh alright then" thinking bugger what else can I give her to do instead. This is one of my problems, I worry about asking her to do too much though just writing this makes me think Hang on, if she finishes everything so quickly she's not working too hard is she? Or being asked to do too much? Clearly I am expecting too much in respect of use of initiative. She is 21 though and has lived on her own at university so I would expect a bit of nouse.

Entertaining my dd is simple. She's such an easy-going cheerful little thing and I have stuff like paint and sponges etc etc. My ds is more of a problem because he's a real Mummy's boy and also howls if he's put down which is exhausting and drives me demented. Maybe yes I just have to be absolutely firm about going into the office to work, and make it clear that during that time her only priority is the children, housework etc can wait till later.

In fact though I've told her that after Christmas we shall be having some time with no au pair to see how we cope. We're lucky in that my mum lives very close to us and has said that she could have them for half days when I need to work, and we could get a cleaner for the house. I don't know if it'll work. Partly it's true and partly I'm an absolute coward and have chickened out of telling her that we're not 100% happy with how it's working out and would rather not have her for any longer than that, which would be about 3 and a half months.

Boo64, it's very very unglamorous and unexciting - just an advertising magazine. But extremely convenient to do from home with kids.