Page 2 | URGENT PLEASE - which of you CM's MOVED HOUSE recently????

looneytune · 2006-09-29T15:18:04+00:00

I was chatting to one of you recently about the stresses of moving house and you were just about to. I need you ASAP - Ofsted causing me problems, just like they did you but I can't find the thread to remind me what you did about it! HELP!!! May be moving in 2½ weeks

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

StrawberryFULLMoonOWOWOWWWWWWW · 03/10/2006 17:39

gggggggggggggggggrrrr..bloody letters..fingers crossed for you

Original poster

looneytune · 03/10/2006 17:37

Mad isn't it. They won't agree to it without this letter so all I can do is hope they are satisfied with what I have to say!

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StrawberryFULLMoonOWOWOWWWWWWW · 03/10/2006 17:26

sorry hun havent time to read full thread, but when we bought this on in july, previous owner was/is a cm and ofsted told her to just do a risk assesment and theyd be round in due course..so she could carry on minding as normal with none of the hassle your having??

i cant explain them..im having nitemare with reg so i no what theyre like

Original poster

looneytune · 03/10/2006 15:49

Thanks LMGs - have change that paragraph as advised

Due to me having a 3 year old son, I made sure that the house we are purchasing is completely suitable for young children. Once we move into the property, we have a few safety measures to put in place, these are detailed in the Risk Assessment I have put together. Please see attached.

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Original poster

looneytune · 03/10/2006 14:54

Another update (in case anyone is actually reading this )

Further to my telephone conversation with your office on xxxx, I am writing to confirm that I am moving house shortly. We do not have a move date as yet but we are hoping for around xxxxxx. The new address will be xxxxxx.

Due to me having a x year old son, I made sure that the house we are purchasing is totally fit for young children. Once we move into the property, we have a few safety measures to put in place, these are detailed in the Risk Assessment I have put together. Please see attached.

When I initially informed the parents of my mindees that I was moving, they wanted me to continue childminding immediately. I told them that I would require a short amount of time off to enable me to put the safety measures in place before I?d be willing to continue childminding, for ?Health and Safety? reasons. They now understand this but are very keen for me to commence childminding as soon as possible after.

As I am sure you understand, the issues myself and the mindee?s parents have regarding not continuing to childmind, relate to the children. Continuity of care is at the top of the list, as well as the fact that I live in an area where we are very short of childminders and we?re not sure any have the appropriate vacancies to accommodate a short term placement for all the children. In particular, I have one 14 month old girl who suffers with Separation Anxiety at the moment. Her mum and I feel it is very important she stays with someone she knows and trusts. I also have 13 month old with a Sleep Disorder. He attends a sleep clinic once a month and it is very important that his sleep routine is followed, which would be impossible for any childminders who do afternoon school runs.

I have spoken to all the parents and they have all expressed their wishes that I continue to look after their children after the move, and have signed a form stating this (please see attached).

Please would you kindly look at my attached Risk Assessment and inform me as soon as possible whether or not I am able to continue childminding immediately after moving, once the safety measures are put in place. I plan to have a total of 5 days off work to ensure this takes place before re-commencing with the children.

I look forward to hearing from you as a matter of urgency.

Yours faithfully

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Original poster

looneytune · 03/10/2006 14:08

Done some slight wording changes on letter and have changed the checklist to a risk assessment. Please can you let me know what you think?

LETTER

Further to my telephone conversation with your office on xxxxxx, I am writing to confirm that I am moving house shortly. We do not have a move date as yet but we are hoping for around xxxxx. The new address will be xxxxxxxxx.

Due to me having a xxx year old son, I made sure that the house we are purchasing is totally fit for young children. Once we move into the property, we have a few safety measures to put in place, these are detailed in the Risk Assessment I have put together. Please see attached.

When I initially informed the parents of my mindees that I was moving, they wanted me to continue childminding immediately. I told them that I would require a short amount of time off to enable me to put the safety measures in place before I?d be willing to continue childminding, for ?Health and Safety? reasons. They now understand this but are very keen for me to commence childminding as soon as possible after.

As I am sure you understand, the issues myself and the mindee?s parents have regarding not continuing to childmind, relate to the children. Continuity of care is at the top of the list, as well as the fact that I live in an area where we are very short of childminders and we?re not sure any have the appropriate vacancies to accommodate a short term placement for all the children. In particular, I have one 14 month old girl who suffers with separation anxiety at the moment and although she is very used to being around the local childminders, she will scream if left for a few moments and will reach her arms for me the second she sees me. This really worries me and her mum and we feel it is very important she stays with someone she knows and trusts, rather than temporarily go to someone she does not feel comfortable with. I also have 13 month old with a sleeping disorder. He attends a sleep clinic once a month and it is very important that his sleep routine is followed, which would be impossible for any childminders who do afternoon school runs.

I have spoken to all the parents and they have all expressed their wishes that I continue to look after their children after the move, and have signed a form stating this (please see attached).

Please would you kindly look at my attached Risk Assessment and inform me as soon as possible whether or not I am able to continue childminding immediately after moving, once the safety measures are put in place. I plan to have a total of 5 days off work to ensure this takes place before re-commencing with the children.

I look forward to hearing from you as a matter of urgency.

Yours faithfully

RISK ASSESSMENT

The inside of the house has been checked for safety issues and I am 100% happy that the house will be safe for children once the appropriate stair gates, cupboards locks etc are in place. I have put together a checklist of what needs to be done to the house before I am willing to re-commence childminding (see below). I have organized a large team of helpers and am very happy that all the safety measures will be in place very quickly.

The back garden is fully enclosed and secure with fence panels. There is side access to the front garden with a gate between so that children cannot get out of the garden. The front garden is also safe and secure as there is a fence panel and gate so that the children cannot run out near the road.

HEALTH AND SAFETY CHECKLIST

First aid box correctly supplied
Smoke alarm fitted in correct areas
Locks on all cupboard doors
Socket covers in place
Stair Gate fitted at the bottom of the stairs
Stair Gate fitted at the top of the stairs
Fire blanket in kitchen
Electrical Leads out of reach of children
Dangerous/sharp utensils stored safely
Fridge/Freezer temp checked
Correct storage of food
Step available to children in downstairs toilet

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Original poster

looneytune · 03/10/2006 08:09

Cheers Henni

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HenniPenni · 02/10/2006 23:20

sounds good looney, can't think of anything else now but no doubt will at 2 in the morning!

Original poster

looneytune · 02/10/2006 23:17

Hi Henni. The garden is secure and safe (totally enclosed) and there is a gate at the front of the garden too so no children are able to go into the road. I think I will change the title to Risk Assessment, state this and the fact the rest of the house is safe and just need the following safety measures taking place, then list them as my checklist. Sound ok?

Off to bed myself but will finish in the morning. Thanks for that

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HenniPenni · 02/10/2006 23:13

Just a quick note as I need my bed, what about garden safety?

Original poster

looneytune · 02/10/2006 23:08

Thanks everyone, in particular to Nannynick who has been contacting me direct and helping lots I really want to complain about their silly procedure (or lack of) but I'm worried about doing this because I have 2 more requests to make to them in the near future (variation on numbers and overnight care). If it wasn't for this, I would be arguing this point more with them.

But, I have decided for now to send the letter to them as requested. I would be VERY grateful for feedback on this before it goes tomorrow. Below the letter I have listed the things I have put in my health and safety checklist and again would appreciate you pointing out any bits I may have misses

Off to bed now as had too much wine (stress getting to me ). Will be back to check in the morning.

Thanks again. I don't know what I'd do without my MN childminder friends

LETTER

Further to my telephone conversation with your office on Friday 29th September 2006, I am writing to confirm that I am moving house shortly. We do not have a move date as yet but we are hoping for around 18th October 2006. The new address will be xxxxxxxxxxxxxx.

Due to me having a x year old son, I made sure that the house we were purchasing is totally fit for young children. Once we move into the property, we have a few safety measures to put in place, these are detailed in the attached Health & Safety checklist I have put together. Please see attached.

When I initially informed the parents of my mindees that I was moving, they wanted me to continue childminding immediately. I told them that I would require a short amount of time off to enable me to put the safety measures in place before I?d be willing to continue childminding, for ?Health and Safety? reasons. They now understand this but are very keen for me to commence childminding as soon as possible after.

As I am sure you understand, the issues myself and the mindee?s parents have regarding not continuing to childmind, relate to the children. Continuity of care is at the top of the list, as well as the fact that I live in an area where we are very short of childminders and we?re not sure any have the appropriate vacancies to accommodate a short term placement for all the children. In particular, I have one xxxx old girl who is extremely clingy at the moment and although she is very used to being around the local childminders, she will scream if left for a few moments and will reach her arms for me the second she sees me. This really worries me and her mum and we feel it is very important she stays with someone she knows and trusts, rather than temporarily go to someone she does not feel comfortable with.

I have spoken to all the parents and they have all expressed their wishes that I continue to look after their children after the move, and have signed a form stating this (please see attached).

Please would you kindly look at my attached Health & Safety checklist (risk assessment) and inform me as soon as possible whether or not I am able to continue childminding immediately after moving, once the safety measures are put in place. I plan to have a total of 5 days off work to ensure this takes place before re-commencing with the children.

I look forward to hearing from you as a matter of urgency.

Yours faithfully

CHECKLIST

First aid box correctly supplied
Smoke alarm fitted in correct areas
Locks on all cupboard doors
Socket covers in place
Stair Gate fitted at the bottom of the stairs
Stair Gate fitted at the top of the stairs
Fire blanket in kitchen
Electrical Leads out of reach of children
Dangerous/sharp utensils stored safely
Fridge/Freezer temp checked
Correct storage of food
Step available to children in downstairs toilet
Drain and manhole covers secured

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nannynick · 02/10/2006 22:32

Oh Becks, you didn't inform them, naughty naughty . As ever with Ofsted, anything informing them of a change in circumstances needs to be in Writing. While you can phone, it needs to be followed up in Writing.

Out of interest, are they still allowing you to childmind, without your new certificate? As after all, you yourself are still registered, it's just that Ofsted haven't got round to doing the paperwork yet.

Beaks · 02/10/2006 21:50

I moved earlier this year and was told I would have to have an inspection at the new property as I had not informed Ofsted of my new address within two weeks of moving (in writing, I phoned!). I had my inspection about 3 weeks ago-fine but still no cert.!

HenniPenni · 02/10/2006 18:57

Nannynick, too right, it is indeed a postcode lottery- I was going to put that at the end of my post but forgot.

nannynick · 02/10/2006 18:54

HenniPenni, thanks for the most useful comment "a c/m friend of mine is also in the process of moving and has been told that they do not need an inspection of their new house. Although it is possibly because they have just had an inspection."

It certainly isn't due to them having a recent inspection, as that inspection will not have taken into account the new pemises. Instead it clearly shows how Ofsted are not applying their Policy (if they have one) in all areas. It's like a postcode lottery!

HenniPenni · 02/10/2006 18:45

looney, please speak directly to the inspection team , not the helpline staff. I had an issue that I needed sorting, I spoke to the helpline satff on three seperate occasions and got told 3 different things - it was eventually resolved when I managed to speak to an inspector who openly admitted that the helpline staff do not know their facts.

Forgive me because I have not read all your thread and so do not know all the facts, but, a c/m friend of mine is also in the process of moving and has been told that they do not need an inspection of their new house. Although it is possibly because they have just had an inspection. HTH

nannynick · 02/10/2006 18:35

That at least sounds a little more reaonable, though I still don't feel it's Legal.

Ofsted certainly didn't say what you posted to another childminder who called them earlier today. So clearly their Helpline staff don't know the correct policy - if what you have posted is their 'official' policy.

Complaints regarding POLICY really need to be made, to get Ofsted to think about what their policy is, and to make that policy public. If childminders knew the policy prior to their decision to buy a new home, I feel there would be far lass of an issue. At present, as it their policy is not published, and some of their staff don't even know what the policy is, it is little wonder that it is creating such an issue for any childminder who is moving or considering moving home.

I have written to NCMA and Ofsted today regarding this matter... I await their response.

Original poster

looneytune · 02/10/2006 16:57

Update:

Early Years rep has phoned me back and this is what Ofsted said with happen IF all runs smoothly:

Contact them by phone informing them of proposed move - done
Confirm in writing, advise them of the new address and give a rough idea of when I will be moving and write up a risk assessment
They will judge me on the letter they receive
Phone up ASAP when obtained actual move date
IF they are happy with the contents of my letter then they will issue a certificate 2-3 days before move date if they are able to.

She said my letter will be read and passed on to local inspector and it's down to them whether or not they are happy to go on just the risk assessment. She said one inspector could be fine whereas another may decide they insist on viewing the premises.

That's all she could do for me and she advised I stick with that to make things as smooth as possible. She said if I need an inspection then yes, it could take up to 6 months as they are very busy

The only way round this would be to childmind for free until they've inspected me. I can't afford to do that with a new bloomin mortgage!!!

I think I will post my draft letter on here when it's done to get some advice as I so need this to be right!

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Original poster

looneytune · 02/10/2006 10:09

Update: Early Years rep is contacting the manager at our local OFSTED office to see what she says. She said at the end of the day, OFSTED are higher up so what they say go . Not holding my breath but will see what she comes back with.

One funny thing she did say is that I shouldn't panic as there are ways round this. I.e. working for no pay. I laughed and said that suddenly not being paid makes my house safe for kids However, I know what she was getting at - not needing to be registered Ridiculous isn't it!!

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Original poster

looneytune · 01/10/2006 12:31

Wow nannynick, you are a true star. I've got lots of reading to do now haven't I!

I've always said you're the king of links!!! You were so helpful when dh lost his job at Christmas - thanks again for all your help and the time you've put in to finding all this!!

Off to have a read now!

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nannynick · 01/10/2006 12:25

Oh I love the Childcare Act 2006

Explanatory Notes to Childcare Act - September 2006

Section 37 places an obligation on the Chief Inspector to place successful applicants in the early years register and to issue them with certificates of registration. This section makes a distinction between early years childminders and early years providers who are not childminders. This is because, when a childminder is registered, the registration is not linked to any particular premises. In the case of other early years providers, however, the registration is in respect of particular premises. This means that early years providers (other than childminders) may have separate entries in the register in respect of different premises (where they provide childcare at more than one location).

Oh don't you just love it:
when a childminder is registered, the registration is not linked to any particular premises.

Childcare Act 2006

If only I could find when this legislation commences. I suspect it may not be until April 2007.

LoveMyGirls · 01/10/2006 12:06

wow nannynick you really have gone to a lot of effort i agree with you having read through your post i think unless ofsted give a very good reason (and i cant think of any) then it must be ok, even if LT does continue to childmind at the new address what is the worst that can happen, a fine at most i should think? and tbh she could challenge that. in the first instance i think LT is right to call the early years team and ask for help and also ring NCMA and get their backing. it is ridiculous that they say you cant continue minding, you would lose your mindee's, your home etc thats insane!

fingers crossed you get this sorted asap LT x

nannynick · 01/10/2006 11:40

Is there a Lawyer in the house? Please look at post below, and the associated legislation... what is your view? Please... we need a legal opinion.

I am not a lawyer, I am a childcare provider, but to me what I wrote makes sense.

nannynick · 01/10/2006 11:39

Care Standards Act 2000
As I do not think we are currently governed by the Childcare Act 2006 at this present moment in time, we will use the Care Standards Act 2000.

Section 79
79 A (6) "Day care" means care provided at any time for children under the age of eight on premises other than domestic premises.

So as a childminder you are NOT providing Daycare.

79 B (3) A person is qualified for registration for child minding if-
(a) he, and every other person looking after children on any premises on which he is or is likely to be child minding, is suitable to look after children under the age of eight;
(b) every person living or employed on the premises in question is suitable to be in regular contact with children under the age of eight;
(c) the premises in question are suitable to be used for looking after children under the age of eight, having regard to their condition and the condition and appropriateness of any equipment on the premises and to any other factor connected with the situation, construction or size of the premises; and
(d) he is complying with regulations under section 79C and with any conditions imposed by the registration authority.

So if the people at the premises has not changed, and you do a risk assessment to confirm that the new premises is suitable for childminding, then you comply with a,b and c above.

79C. - (1) The Secretary of State may, after consulting the Chief Inspector and any other person he considers appropriate, make regulations governing the activities of registered persons who act as child minders, or provide day care, on premises in England.

This I believe means that you need to follow what it says in the National Standards for Childminding.

(7) Regulations may provide-
(a) that a registered person who without reasonable excuse contravenes, or otherwise fails to comply with, any requirement of the regulations shall be guilty of an offence; and
(b) that a person guilty of the offence shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale.

So if you ignore their rules, you commit an offence which may incur a level 5 fine which I think is £5000.

79H (2) Any regulations made under this section shall include provision conferring on the person concerned a right of appeal to the Tribunal against suspension.

If Ofsted do take action against you, it can go to a Tribunal. WE NEED CASES TO GO TO TRIBUNAL - so we create CASE LAW, which can then be referred to on subsequent occasions of the same events occuring. If as a Registered Childminder, all you have done is move premises, and you have carried out a risk assessment and YOU FEEL it is safe, and you have Notified Ofsted of the changes of premises, then is a Judge really going to say you are an unfit childminder? Or is a Judge more likely to use commensense and say that it is up to the regulator to inspect the premises at their earliest opportunity.

National Standards
14.3 The early years child care inspector is informed of the following at the
earliest opportunity: any significant changes to the premises;*

Glossary
Registered person: a person deemed qualified to care for children and whose name appears on the certificate of registration. The registered person
has overall responsibility for ensuring that the requirements of the national standards are met. A company, committee or other group may be the registered person.

I CANNOT FIND WHERE IT STATES THAT FOR A CHILDMINDER THE CERTIFICATE HAS TO DISPLAY THE PREMISES ADDRESS.

SI 2001 No.1830: Information to be included on Certificates

Certificates of registration for providing child minding or for providing day care shall give the following information about the following matters -

(a) the name of the registered person; (b) in the case of day care, the address at which the day care is to be provided; (c) any conditions applicable to the registration.

Ok then... it's in Black and White - as a Childminder, your certificate DOES NOT have to display the ADDRESS as you are not providing Day Care - see above, Care Standards Act 2000 79a (6) for definition of what Day Care is.

My belief is that Ofsted don't realise that, and thus why they feel they have to put the address on the certificate. I may have missed something, but I can't find where it says in Law that the address of a Childminder needs to appear on the Certificate.

You MUST notifiy Ofsted that your premises is changing. You must do so at the earliest opportunity.
I believe that Ofsted say that you can't recommence childminding without a new certificate, but I can't find in Law where it says that! I think Ofsted are banding Childminding and Daycare under one umbrella... whereas the Care Standards Act and SI 2001 No.1830 notes differences. Thus I feel it's worth challenging.

So for those of you who are NCMA members, please put pressure on NCMA to challenge Ofsted's policy in a Court of Law, so that there is Case Law to refer to in the future.

While I agree that Ofsted need to be notified of a change in premises, and I feel Ofsted should be able to inspect such premises at their earliest opportunity, I can not find where it states in law that you can not continue childminding from that new premises.

If you more house and continue to childmind, what law are you breaking?

Original poster

looneytune · 01/10/2006 08:48

Thanks Nannynick Unfortunately it looks like Ofsted can leave me without work for up to 6 months - if that's the case, we'd loose our house and parents would be stuck without a childminder as I'm not sure there are any more in the area who could help atm.

Ofsted annoy the hell out of me as it's so clear that although they think they have one rule across the board, they so don't!!! I know Gooseegg had the same problem as I'm having but then got help and it was all sorted and she just did her own risk assessment.

If I hadn't have known about people moving with no problems and I'd phoned Ofsted first and they told me this, we wouldn't have been moving as wouldn't be able to afford months of no income.

Sorry, still very annoyed with them!

Thanks for the links though

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