What do you do about your nanny when you go on hols?

you get my vote uwila

Hey, DC, I think I'm winning the vote... unless of course you'd like to call for a recaunt to check for dangling chads?

Can I just clarify that I don't believe I misunderstood anything about DC's post. I always understood that he gave the nanny the option to stay home or go on hols with them in exchange for babysitting. But, it was still her holiday. The swap was DC flips the bill and she babysits a bit in return. But, I still find this worthy of the Grinch title. I mean, if my boss came up to me and said "Uwila, can you work on Christmas Day?" that is a question and I have the right to say, "no.". But, do I really. I mean what my boss is really saying is "Uwilla, I want you to work on Christmas Day". So, saying "no" might be abad career move. I would say "yes" not because I actually want to work on Christmas day, but because I am dedicated to my work and would feel obliged to accommodate the request.

So, I think DC's practice is still cheecky to say the very least.

dc - you really are being pompous on this one - classic post from uwila. when surrounded by intelligent people it is a pompous one who blames misunderstandings on the inferior capacity of others to comprehend, rather than on their own ability to communicate clearly. face it DC everyone who read your post didn;t get it. Either we're all thick (which I don't just doubt. I know to be untrue) or you, on this occasion, didn;t get your point over. It's not a big deal. Happens to the best of us...

DC, your practice is cheeky at the very least. And that is saying something coming from me. I bet no one on here will disagree (that it is saying something coming from me).

antidisestablishmentarianism Top that Mr. Bigword (without using a dictionary or other reference material). Disney words not allowed.

OK, let's put it to a vote.
I originally wrote
"I think the main issue to to negotiate reasonably, not push them into giving up their hols. "

If a majority of people hereabouts think this can easily be mistaken for forcing a nanny to lose holiday. Then I will of course apologise.

Ditto!

since plenty of other people didn't get your post, dc, i'd say you owe uwila an apology.

DC, you are a pompous twit. I have yet to see evidence of your superior intelligence: not superior to my own, and not superior to that of the many other MN posters whom you so routinely accuse of requiring smaller words.

It is the manner in which you string them together and not the words themselves that I sometimes find difficult to make sense of. This is not because I lack the intellectual capacity to digest your superior thought processes, but because your arguments are sometimes full of shit.

OK, I've got my Monday morning head on, so have to ask how I screwed up what I wanted to say so badly ?

I said if we tell her to come, we pay, and it's not counted as holiday.
Our policy has been to replicate the sort of normal policies we've had at work. If an employer sends you away from home, he foots the bill, and it's not holiday even if it's a nice place.

I did say (though apparently with not enough emphasis) that one should not use the power of an employer to force them to give up holiday.

We've tried to make working T&Cs as similar to fair ones we've work under ourselves.
From feedback we've had from nannies, that's surprsingly not the norm. We've heard of curfews and intrusion into their private life. Arbitrary and stupid rules, and ignoring the expertise in the subject they get from first hand experfience of your child.

We see our nanny as someone doing a critical job, occasionally under non-trivial stress. Also if they live with you, it's harder to leave it all behind. I'm big on human factors when managing people, and I know that without a break, your performance simply degrades, occasionally quite catastrophically.
Thus even if your nanny wants to come on all your holidays, I'd be relcutant to do this, regardless of the legalities you must leave it all behind or go at least a little loopy.

Have to say I had exactly the same take on Dominiconnor's post-nanny came on holiday but because she got some time off it was counted as annual leave....glad it wasn't just me!

To bluebear's question - I'm happy for our nanny to take odd days here and there (I'd only refuse if it was impossible for me to manage), but our contract states a specific notice period for dates (1 month I think) that is more useful than your 1 week. I'd be unhappy insisting on her taking 1 week at a time: I often take odd days holiday (for long weekends, special events / appointments on weekdays, if hols tie in with BH that leaves you with odd days leave etc), so I wouldn't want to refuse her that. In reality, leave is often agreed with shorter notice if we're both happy about it.

we chose two of her four weeks leave, to tie in with our family holiday - so far, we've not wanted the expense of taking her - but we might ask her to come with us in future (in which case, it wouldn't count as her A/L). On the very occasional 'odd day' extra when we're away and she's not on A/L, she usually ask her to come in and do some child-related chores, which she usually finishes by lunchtime and then gets afternoon free.

I was wondering - if peoeple take their nanny on holiday with them, do they pay extra (e.g. for weekend days travelling? or being away from home?)

dc - I read your post the same way as uwila. It was not remotely clear that you "offer" her the choice. Offering her the choice isn't the same as being "happy" to count it a hols. Don;t think you can pin this on stupid misinterpretation

Back to OP:- if our nanny comes with us on holiday, then that is not part of her leave enitlement. Our contract states that the nanny has to take 2 weeks worth of leave to coincide with ours (with planty of notice). We also have at least 2 weeks more where we are away but she continues to get paid. So overall it is not too bad a deal - she gets 2 weeks of her choice, 2 weeks of our choice, and still has paid leave for 2 more weeks when we are on leave.

Don't think it was just uwila - I certainly found the following statement confusiing, or st least contradictory with the rest of your post:

"When we've taken a nanny with us, she's been happy to count this as holiday, and in return for us footing all the bills, she helps out a little with the kids."

You're still paying her for the time, so of course she should be willing to help out. But your last post seems to make this clearer:- although your nanny is with you on your holiday, she isn't using her annual leave.

Uwila, what precisely is your problem with reading ?
This is part of a pattern of stupidly misinterpreting my posts.

Just so you get in, I'll use short words (not the first time I've had to do this for you is it )

We offer the nanny the choice of going on holiday with us
We give them extra free holiday.

Which bit of that is too hard for you to understand ?

Actually, our house is normal when the nanny is here and seems to descend into chaos on weekends and pretty much the minute nanny walks out the door in the evening!

Thanks for your posts - I'll let her know - I have always managed to cope with her requests so far, but she wants to know why the nanny agencies put more emphasis on nannying experience than childcare experience (she has over 10 years as a nursery nurse)..This is the sort of thing that shows the difference.
We are moving out of the area next year and so will be parting company and I'ld like to think that she will be well-prepared for another nanny job, with a 'standard' nanny-employing family, rather than our mad-cap flexible household.

1 day here and there isnt always suitable .I usually take 2 weeks at a time . and the bosses take their two weeks when it suits them .

Oh, and I forgot to say that I choose some dates before I ask her to choose hers. For example, I am American and Thanksgiving is a big deal to me. So that Thursday and Friday (Thanksgiving is always on a Thursday) are holiday. Same goes for 4th of July.

Hi Bluebear,
I wouldn't go for that. I can't really show up at work and say byy the way I'm not coming in next wendesday and then do it again in another few weeks. Also, I'm a planning freak. I want to know in January if I an taking aholiday in June. So, at the start of the one year contract, I ask the nanny to choose her time, then we discuss and agree on it. She does not have the right to pick whenever she wants. But, I am agreeable. For example, she chose the first two weeks of October because she is in a friends wedding in her home country. October is not exactly my ideal holiday time, but fair enough. She can't really miss the wedding. So we are bothe on hols for two weeks now. But, this was agreed many months ago. And, yes, I do ask her not to take a day here and a day there.

Can I ask a related question? I have seen a few nanny employer's say that they choose 2 weeks and the nanny chooses 2 weeks - do you expect your nanny to always have a week off at a time and do you expect more than a couple of week's notice?

Asking as my nanny has a chart with the 'number of day's leave remaining' and takes her leave as a day here and a day there, whenever she feels like it, and normally gives us a max of 1 week's notice. (Her contract says she must give at least a week's notice).
Don't think I'd change our system now, but it is her first nannying job and if everyone else has different expectations i will let her know before she leaves us next year.

DC, you take her with you and it does count as her hols??? And I thoought I was mumsnet grinch of nanny employers. HA! Title relenquished to you Almighty Grinch.