Kids saying that the nanny has called them stupid??!!

Hmm, even if she didn't do any of those thongs, there is clearly a deep dislike at least on your ds's side. I'd find someone else.

Fraid so minki it's not something that would happen iyswim

apparently about to say and then the child mind reads and nanny doesn't actually say it but your child does

I'd start looking tbh. you are not happy with this arrangement.

fwiw - I have a flexible nanny - she works when I ask her to and she is able. most weeks at least a day unless I'm on planned annual leave. some weeks up to 4 days. she does other jobs and trys to fit them around us.

i work 22 hours out of 37 a week. different days different times.

it works excellently.
we are very lucky, but I don't think it is impossible to come to this arrangement.

and it is all in the set up.

'he thought i was going to say that but i didnt'

total bullshit

she obv did say that

find a new nanny

Christ! Thats a lot of different nannies your kids have had. They must not know which way is up.

sometimes you have appointments at short notice. It happens sometimes

archeryann I'm not really in a position to work off the books even if I wanted too. I know there are employers who are tight or sometimes just hard up and they try to play the self employed card. but I also know some nannies are happy with this arrangement.

The employer I have just started working for said her previous 2 nannies had said they were self employed. I explained that this wasn't possible in the kind of position she was offering and she agreed to employ me legally. I cannot afford not to keep my NI. contributions up to date and the tax man isn't stupid and as my employer is claiming tax relief on her childcare by employing an Ofsted registered nanny and I also have to inform Ofsted where I am working it would be silly of her to not register for Tax and NI.

I do know that a friend of mine found out her employer had not been paying her contributions and the tax office went through all the employers financial affairs with a fine toothed comb and they were fined heavily and threatened with prosecution and had to pay all the nannies back contributions.

If English isn't the nanny's first language, she maybe doesn't appreciate that 'stupid' is quite offensive.

I do think that going forward you can't expect your nanny to not work if you have a last minute request from your ex to see the children. If she has made herself available for work it is a bit off to change plans at the last minute, even if she has worked additional hours elsewhere in the week.

Have you thought about supplementing with an au pair to give you more flexibility in the holidays?

A contract helps you both to know what hours duties are wanted

If you cancel nanny for whatever reason you need to pay her

The nanny should has explained why she needed thur off and was it possible to have time off

We all like to be flexible and help out employers so as Lin as hou ask if she can work late and not insist on it then it can work

Stupid - simply say kids said it the other day. Do you know where they heard it from

Agree very diff to say you are stupid and that's a stupid thing to do ie rid if bike one handed and fall off iyswim

Minki you're getting a kicking on here and I do not think you should be. You have indeed had bad luck with your previous nanny (I have had similar and I know how troubling it is).

I too need 'flexibility' but I employ a nanny for 40-50 hours a week. I pay her slightly above the going rate for such flexibility and have rarely had to trouble her to be too flexible luckily enough.

As for the children saying she said they were stupid, I too would be alarmed at this and would investigate. I'd come at it from a 'we do not use that word in this house, where did they get it from' angle. If your children are used to having a nanny it would seem unlikely to me that they are simply lying to get rid of her.

Yes, but I also need flexibility and made it very clear that I would need more/less hours with v little notice

I disagree that I am asking to have my cake and eat it. I am just asking for a degree of flexibility. I appreciate she may say "no" or she won't be available if I need more hours and that she has the right to say no

Not quite the same thing is it??????

sunshinenanny, good for you! A while back I employed a nanny part-time (legally, with Ni and tax and sick pay and whatnot) and knew a lot of other nannies socially. Hardly any were legal - not because they didn't want to be, but because their employers were tightarses. My nanny's other employer - who was mildly famous and about a billion times better off than me - paid her cash in hand, no holiday pay, no sick pay. Tight bastard.

archery Ann, I always insist that my employers register for tax and insurance so don't understand the comment "so few do,"

Nick is right about getting a written agreement at the beginning as it can save a lot of grief later.

I don't agree with many of the poster here. I have worked with some families that require flexibility, and I never asked them to pay me an extra hour every day just in case they ask me to stay later one day.

I also worked with stay at homes mothers that would telle me the hours they needed one or two days before. I was alright with that. As long as you know that when you start to work, I don't think it's so horrible ;)

To be honest, I was happy when they asked me to stay, it's more money and it was rare that I couldn't (and I would just say no then).

Not having a Written Statement is a bit of red herring I feel - a contract is formed when a person agrees to do work for someone. The contract at present is probably oral and may have some bits written in the form of email and text communication. I like many nannies would want the written statement before starting work as that is better than trying to remember discussions which may go back some weeks/months.

Without there being the written statement which would detail things such as amount of notice for taking a day off, then how would your nanny know how much advance notice you required. Yes I agree they should have Asked you, not Told you, so maybe communication between you needs to be improved, which may come about from you creating the written statement and having some way for you to communicate with each other whereby a record is kept (I suggest email and using a calendar).

The nanny should not call a child stupid but do you know the full circumstances of the event? People say things (often the wrong things) when under stress. Did your children say if they had done anything which may have resulted in the nanny saying they were stupid, or being stupid?

Given your children's history with nannies, are they in the phase of testing out this nanny, pushing their luck to see what they can and can't get away with? Could it be that having a word with nanny about being careful about the language they use may help?

I find there is always a time when the realities of the job hits home. Sometimes that is after a couple of weeks, other times it may be a bit later. Often though it is within the first two months - the novelty wears off and the job may not look as attractive it did initially. It takes time for everyone involved to adapt to the new situation. Whilst the children have had a nanny before, they have not had this nanny, so I expect they will be testing to see what is permitted and what is not, thus seeing at what point nanny gets cross. Nanny may be bit a confused about how pay is being structured, how much notice there needs to be on both sides for 'flexibility' requests.

So at the moment I feel this is coming down to communication issues and children pushing limits. You may or may not agree, after all you are there and I am not. Give it some more time, cross the t's dot the i's, do review chat (bad news sandwich style if necessary) to make sure nanny is happy with the arrangement and problems are brought to your attention quickly, resulting in quick resolution.

Yes if you want her availiable full time in holidays, then you pay full time.

Would you be available as and when for your work for 60 hrs a week if they only paid you 20hrs usually?

Minki

Take a deep breath.

'Stupid' who knows - she's unlikely to have told them they are stupid and much more likely to have told them to stop being stupid. If your children are, as you say, naughty - then a nanny they don't like might not mean the nanny is the wrong one! She might just be expecting decent behaviour from them and that's no bad thing.

You need to talk to her and explain that you cannot take time off at short notice or arrange other care for the children so she needs to make other arrangements for her appointments.

I often have to work late and so will be back from work late, often with very little notice

You are employing her from 3pm to 7pm. If you need a nanny to be available, at the drop of a hat, for longer hours, you need to be paying her a premium for never knowing if she will be working 'late' or not. She is as entitled to have a life outside of work as anyone else is. She's not 'on call' unless you pay for 'on call' services AND the extra hours on top of that.

If the children go to their Dad's or anywhere else, you still need to pay your nanny & NOT expect her to work the time in lieu. She is available for the contracted hours, if you choose not to use them, that's up to you. (I realise this week was unusal - but I'm just saying - going forward).

Also 'I will need more hours in the holidays' - well, if she's available and willing, great. If she isn't you will have to find an alternative. You simply cannot have all the perks of a full time nanny and only pay a few hours after school.

As for tidying?! I imagine she has plenty to do with your 'lively' children and all the afterschool stuff without doing much in the way of housework. She should be leaving it much as she finds it - but you need to be honest about how much is reasonable with your kids.

You are trying to have your cake and eat it too I'm afraid.

If you didn't need her for one of her days because other arrangements had been made for the children you should have paid her for those hours anyway. It appears from what you have stated that all of the flexibility needs be on one side only.

A lot of small kids being taken care of by employees complain and make things up/misconstrue stuff because they think that if they can get rid of them Mummy will be at home with them all the time. I once had one of my charges tell me that he was going to get Mummy to send me away. This was because their previous nanny who the kids allegedly did not like at all (possibly because the kids were bloody "lively" and she was probably quite strict with them) had had a serious disagreement with my employer and had walked out. I made it clear to him that Mummy was quite happy with me and that I wasn't going anywhere.

Hmm I'm not sure mixed hours work well tbh. If you had a childminder 3-6pm or paid after school club you would still have to regardless of whether dad picked up/ child sick etc, as slot is booked. Same with nanny. Name can't work elsewhere if times not fixed. If say 2-6pm, then she can work 8-1pm with another family. People who want odd hours tend to just pay full time hours ie 8-6pm to make sure nanny is available.

How many nannies have you had? Do you think this may be why you have had more than 1 nanny?

Well, good on you for paying NI and tax, as so few do!