Childminder wants ££ when children are not there! Is this normal!

Just joining in this conversation, in the past week I have had two ladies question me about my income, one nanny who thought I was mad to be a CM because she earns so much more than I do when I do double the work, (love to know how she knows my income) and secondly, a horrid woman who runs local stay and play, who expected me to pay £2per child, I had 4 with me at the time, and when I said no let's go to the park, she said, well it's a bargain for you, if you think about how much you get paid.
Fuming, is not the word.

I have 4/5children a day, and charge £5.65p/h (different rate for term time only schoolies). I am very happy with my wage. Even happier when my hubby becomes my assistant. I am neither poor, nor rolling in it. I have a peaceful little life in N London.

Although, I am originally from the Midlands, I have friends who still CM there, and they charge £3.50p/h approx. I wouldn't be able to afford the life I have now on that. So I understand how this general idea of CMs being skint comes from, because I would be if I still lived there! We will never be millionaires though unfortunately, not unless we win the euro millions!

Why should fees be the same for all families? New starters go onto increased fee rates. I do spend a lot on equipment, new car seats and pushchairs, season tickets for most farms, zoo, music classes, top quality resources. I constantly reinvest into my business. I certainly do not feel hard done by, I am higher rate tax payer.

Those figures are wrong blame my iPad and not checking, yes I aim for 30% expenses, so lose 50% in total.

My fees are top end and I get 6 weeks full paid holiday, and 10 weeks at half fee from my families, we only do 3 terms of 12 weeks each, and they have paid me when I had to take time off for an personal reasons, they pay me regardless, and for a full day when I only do 8-4 so what goes around...... I probably still get a lot more than most when you average it out.

I have kept my rates for existing families the same too - though not for anywhere near 11 years thankfully. But if they have a new child and a new contract, the new one is at the current rate. I have had families with 3 children on different hourly rates. My expenses are close to 40% of my income and I do know I could spend less but I also know that part of the reason parents choose to entrust their children to me is that I don't begrudge paying for good food or plenty of toys and trips out. I wouldn't enjoy the job if I was always worrying about saving pennies.

Mindingalongtime - I know a CM who does the same as you do and leaves all parents on the same rate. The only thing I kept the same for existing parents was when I changed from hourly to daily rates.

Why on earth do you fix fees for so long? Also means your hourly income
Varies from Family to family - why not charge the same for all

If you are taking out to clubs etc then surely your fee needs to go up

EVery thing increased from food to petrol to household bills so that need to be taken into consideration

Mindingalong time I agree costs have gone up in terms of running a cm business have risen.

However the general rule is 30% of gross income in expenses. It will vary a bit but frankly if your costs are regularly 60% of your gross income you need to take a serious look at what you are spending money on and raising your fees. Also HMRC would not look favourably on this if they did an investigation on you because on figures like yours you have to wonder why you bother to be honest.

Why do you have some parents on fees of 11 years ago? They must be right royally laughing every step pf the way to the bank. Their living costs have risen like yours have you should have put their fees up by now. I will aim to keep fees stable for 1 yr to 18 months after a parent joins me, as long as nothing unusual happens or there is a change in legislation that may increase my costs. If I had kept all parents fees the same for the last 11 years I would go broke!

You are not doing yourself or other cm any favours by doing this.

Costs have gone up hugely, my profit is down by 30% this year due to increased cost of service, rule, food, insurance, resources etc. I do earn a very good income, but on average 60% is cost and then i pay tax on the remaining profit, so lose roughly 80-% of what my gross income is.

When parents start with me their fees never go up, they are fixed, so I have some on the same fee as 11 years ago, that is lot of difference, £5 an hour then and £7 an hour now. especially when I have siblings. That's just my way of doing things. I too will have to sell my house when I retire to have a pension and all my investments have diminished and my endowments policies paid out next to nothing.

I do love my job though, even after 25+ years

And the phrase "capitalism at its most lucrative" suggests that we are the equivalent of investment bankers, rolling around in big piles of cash!

Childminders aren't pleading poverty - I think that's unfair.

What they are doing is pointing out that they really aren't making the huge amounts that so many think they are. It really isn't the lucrative moneyspinner that the media (briefed by the Government) claim it to be.

If it were, the businessmen would be rushing to set up childminder agencies - in fact, now they've looked into it for themselves, most of them are running hard in the opposite direction!

I certainly wasn't pleading poverty but I don't know any childminders who earn enough to finance a villa in Spain! I have 3 kids so only have 3 spaces to fill which means I can't earn vast amounts and also means I have higher costs because when we go out and about and do craft activities etc I'm providing enough for 6 kids. This isn't a complaint by the way as my lack of earnings is offset by the fact that I don't have to pay for childcare and I get to attend all my kids concerts etc. I'm childminding because it fits in with my family not because I want to be rich! Jusy one last note, it's worth remembering that the amount childminders charge varies enormously from one area to another. No-one in the area I live in could charge more than around £30 a day.

that's weird, I live in North Norfolk & the CMs I know live in 3 bed semis with small gardens.

I think charging for weeks your DH will be home is fair to be honest if she could otherwise fill the spot with a full-time child. Charging half for school hours is on the unfair side though - could she not provide after-school care at a slightly higher hourly rate? Then again, it's probably the same principle at work - if she had a choice between accepting children who are going to be there full-time or children who will be doing bit-and-pieces of care as required, makes much more sense to take on full-time child, both logistically and financially.

It's decent as a second income if you're married and your DH earns well. As a single parent with DCs to take care of, it's pretty average. Certainly not second home in Spain money, which is what prompted the discussion about cms being well paid or not.

Just did a quick calculation and I make my cm's income about £27k gross.

Yes there are costs but I'd imagine that a lot of those are tax deductible which would offset quite a bit.

So yeah...not rolling in it, but it's a decent enough income IMO.

I do earn enough to pay tax and I am always surprised that some CMs don't.

Ever increasing Training Costs. Though I have to agree with Violet Hare if a childminder has the equivalent of three full timers then their income is not usually min wage even taking into account expenses.

I have never had hoards of school age children in the holidays or otherwise but there have been times when my net income has been more in a month than my Primary school teacher husbands. Yes I work hard and I work 12 plus hours a day and do paperwork and Training after work but I do have a good income.

I have to agree childminders do have to stop pleading poverty all the time.

Sofas, carpets and beds which are wee'd on etc.

Insurance includes car, house, contents, liability, etc.

As well as the increased energy bills- heating, electric, washing powder, cleaning products.

Obviously she also has expenses, petrol, food, activities, insurance

Take a stab at those costings for a week.

I have to question all the 'poor childminder' posts about how little they earn

If you cm part time, with one or two kids, yeah, £3-£5 per hour isn't much.

My dc go to a cm though. She has my two 3 days a week, the oldest 3 hours of after school care and youngest 7 hours a day. I pay £130 a week for this. That's just my two.

My cm also has a 2 year old with her every day, so cost is £160 a week. Plus another 4 year old for 4 days a week for 7 hours (£130 a week) and an 8 year olds for after school care (£55 a week).

That's £475 a week during term time. During holiday she has 5 kids all day, on their respective days, at £33 a child so her income takes a massive jump.

By God does she earn it - she's fantastic with them, always on the go. Worth her weight in gold, seriously. Obviously she also has expenses, petrol, food, activities, insurance. BUT at £475 a week gross earnings (and a lot more in holidays) she's hardly on the breadline!

I think I'd want to know what type of setting i was actually sending my child to before agreeing fees and contracts. Maybe that's just me.

its a bit like comparing a cleaners salary with the owner of a massive cleaning business

oh my cleaner charges a tenner an hour
no wonder she is so rich

just like my '2 cleaning business owning' friend who employs thirty cleaners. she has a big villa in Spain, dontcha know

Those sound like childcare on domestic premises, which are larger settings with more than one childminder and assistants. They're run like small nurseries. I work with DH, so not quite as big.

I think you're confusing the amount paid for childcare with the amount the childminder actually makes - profit, if you like.
Once you've factored in all the food, expenses, training, insurance, memberships, registrations, equipment, resources etc. it's a disappointingly small amount. You also assume that all places are filled and everyone pays on time (did I hear the echos of wry laughter around the board?)
As someone said further upthread, many don't even make enough to pay tax.

We have a reasonably large house, but not huge. When we stop minding, it will be sold - it's the only pension we have. Always supposing we can keep up the payments on it, that is.