Childminder or nursery.

Precisely, which is why I wouldn't do it...however some can, and do!!

I would definitely reccomend any parent who finds themselves in a similar position, to do a couple of visits, but explain why to CM so that they don't feel messed around!

Hmm ok so could be legal, but it sounds at the boundaries of what is possible/desirable. If all 4 were easygoing children then maybe but it only takes one stroppy non napping whirlwind like mine and the others get little attention surely.

minipie in answer to your question,is that legal? It depends...there are certain variations and exceptions to ratio rule, it's not clear cut. It's hard to judge this case without all the facts, for example, does she have these children together all day everyday? Are any of them siblings? Were any of them with the childminder before?
It's quite possible what the CM is doing is perfectly above board, she may not even have an assistant. I'm not sure if I would ever elect to have that many children, but some CMs cope exceptionally well! She will have to risk asses and prove to Ofsted she is capable of looking after this many children, so it wouldn't be worth the CM doing unless she was prepared!

Hmm in general I'd say CM (especially if they collect and drop off - amazing) but I'd be worried about the ratios come Sept/Oct.

So in September your CM will have a 2.5 year old, a 1.5 yr old (your DS), and 2 under 1? Is that even legal? She'd have to be superwoman to manage - and I suspect trips out would be few and far between.

Unless she will have an assistant?

I worked in a nursery with an on-site kitchen, it was great for warming up the value ready meals that they brought in .

Of course millionprammiles is right, there are always going to both poor and outstanding CMs and nurseries. It's worth going to view as many different places as possible.

It's a good idea for you to write a list of most important qualities you need out of your childcare, and that may give you some direction as to wether you need CM or Nursery.

I love the idea of a home environment for an under 2yr old, but that's personal choice.

Read Ofsted reports of settings in your area, you can do a postcode search on Ofsted website. Don't base your search just on inspections though, but these offer a good starting point!

A lot really depends what you're after. Dd's nursery do lots (and I mean a lot!) of messy play, baking etc which I don't want to have to do at home. We go out a lot to parks, museums, farms etc at the weekend so I really wanted dd doing something different during the week.

I also preferred an environment where staff are under scrutiny from peers/managers. Oddly I prefer that dd's care isn't dependant on one particular individual. But then dd is very happy there, maybe I'd think differently if she wasn't.

Like others I've seen poor exampes of both nurseries and CMs so no option is fool proof.

The ratio is no more than 6 children under 8, no more than 3 if those can be preschoolers, and no more than 1 under one. The only way you can go over these ratios is by taking on a sibling, or a child changing/increasing days, or by having an assistant.
Childminders (like me!) give more tailored care, and go out and about doing all the things you'd do yourself. The it drawback is the lack of care if minder is on holiday or sick.

Agree that verypunny's experience doesn't match mine. I agree that a good nursery can be great, but more staff doesn't always meant that there is always someone on hand for your child - there are still quite a few kids per staff member (is the limit around 4 at this age? Can't remember), and there will be times when they will also be busy. Also agree with pps that food in my experience has been better with childminders. That said, nurseries can be lovely places too, if you find a place with good staff and low turnover (much more important than lots of toys etc, in my opinion).

To me I would be a little worried that your cm would have 2 under 1 plus two other littlies though, I know mine will only take 1 under 1 and then tries to have some older kids to balance out their needs - not sure what the experienced cms on here think, maybe it is more manageable with practise?

Nursery staff can be working whilst training. Is that changing?

Nurseries, childminders, nannies, its all different. What suits one family may not suit another.

We had a BBQ today. The kids loved it. Is a beanbag dangerous furniture? (Never done pheasant) oh and I have a degree in early years and I'm an early years teacher.

I wouldn't normally get involved in a nursery vs cm debate as it's very much personal opinion & most of us have some sort of bias (ie I'm a cm so naturally think cm is best but if you're child is in a nursery you're unlikely to feel they would be happier elsewhere) BUT I honestly do think of all the arguments for a nursery vs cm, better quality food is most definitely misguided unless you are assuming all cm offer jam sandwiches & turkey twizzlers .

Tanith, you win. I've never cooked pheasant in my life!

I once cooked a pheasant that a father brought us - he'd been on a shoot. Does that win for "superior" and "varied"? I've got loads more recipes I can put forward (this could be fun!). I cook them in my onsite oven ;)

As for "dangerous furniture"

How dangerous? And what particular item did you have in mind, verypunny?

I'm afraid I'm a bit sceptical when I hear stories about the childminders in the cafe/soft play/park etc.. You do know SAHMS, nannies, grandparents, illegal minders, parents with days off all meet up with each other, don't you?
Bet it was the NCT lot, myself ;)

Thanks donkir and others - the Evening Standard needs to get its facts straight clearly!

I am also intrigued as to what sort of set up verypunny thinks childminders have!

Childminders need at least level 2 in early years, some speculation everyone will have to be level 3 or higher soon. We also have to do child protection and first aid. Childminders are also required to do a course called CYPOP5.
So no, we are very qualified!!

Also I've worked in a nursery for several years and although the food was good and nutritious it was cheap and bought in bulk. Cm's food is by far better imo.

The only childcare professional who doesn't need relevant qualifications(unless registered) are nanny's. Nursery staff will have trainees but the will not be left in charge. Room managers need at least a level 3 and deputy's a 2 I think. Childminders also need a separate childminding qualification I think.

Does anyone know what formal qualifications (not OFSTED registering) CMs or nursery staff need? Do both need some sort of Early Years learning qualification or is that only for pre-school staff?

I read something in the paper yesterday that said all nursery staff need a formal qualification but no CMs do. That can't be right can it?
I think there are changes afoot requiring nursery staff to have grades C in maths and english but surely that's meant to apply to all childcare providers, whatever the setting?

Verypunny. I'm afraid I'm going to laugh at the suggestion that all nurseries with on site kitchens provide better food than I can as a cm. do you not know a great deal about childminders? We work on domestic premises, so will have a kitchen in our homes. The children I look after are given a proper cooked dinner every day, unless like yesterday we go for a picnic. As an example, last week, they had roast lamb dinner, home made chicken nuggets, with jacket pots and veg, home made turkey meatballs with pasta and sausages, pasta and veg. I think that is a very good menu for a child. The nursery I worked for provided absolutely dire food, the cheapest of everything, very little meat/protein, lots of fillers and cheap carbohydrates, lack of fruit and veg, lots of biscuits.

I also don't think the best environment for a child is in a group of children of the same age. Children learn by example, so I believe they are better in a mixed age group environment. Little ones copy the older ones, the older ones often enjoy playing with (therefore teaching) the little ones.

I'm also not sure what furniture is dangerous in my home. I have the same kind of furniture as many other mums netter. A sofa, a table, chairs, a bookshelf, etc,etc. my house is probably safer than the children's own home, because it is a business premises and I have to is assess it for risk all the time.

young children are better of with a good childminder who will get to know them, be flexible to the children in their care and offers good quality activities and outings to suit each day, but also think that for the year before school, a couple of hours a day in a preschool type setting so the child gets used to a bit of structure and being part of a larger group is a good thing. op, at 17 months, your child will be getting all the socialisation and stimulation they need from a good childminder.

veryfunny I've never come across a childminder yet who doesn't have an onsite kitchen!!!
FWIW I think the food is of a far superior quality when prepared small scale as you would at home rather than mass catered. I also don't see how it is less varied with a CM? ( or maybe I'm just a bloody good cook!)

I have worked as a nanny, teacher and senior nursery teacher and I would recommend a childminder if you can find a good one- or if you're happy with the one you have. Mainly for the reasons childminder88 stated, but also because your child will develop more secure attachments and this is so important in the early years.

We have used both for my now almost 4yr old he started at 9mths 3 days a week with a cm n then at 13mths added in 1 day of nursery.

At 19mths we changed this to 2 days of each as changed cm due to other going off on mat leave and he has been with new cm since then and 2 days of each works well he is happy it varied and particularly now with being in a busy pre school room I think he likes the more chilled cm days for some quiet.

Having been a nursery manager, and now childminder, I have seen how wonderful both environments are when managed the right way. I left the nursery, despite it being an outstanding nursery, because I couldn't put up with office gossip and politics. A couple of the parents left with me and I now childmind their children.

Things for you to bear in mind;

Nurseries
-high turn over of staff
-if staff member sick, your child may be with someone new

• won't be able to go out to the park/farm/shops that often

Childminders
-if childminder sick can be hard to find emergency cover (I have CM friend as back up)
-what will you do when CM is on holiday? Your CM seems to run a fairly small operation, so this may be quite easy for you to arrange amongst yourselves
-what's her sick policy say?

Overall, for me, the quality of care I provide as a CM is ten times better than when I was at the nursery. My care is very child-led, as much as nurseries say they do that, they only do within reason. For example, I may plan to do some baking in the morning, but a child may come in with a magnifying glass they got at the weekend, so instead we take buckets to the park and search for mini beasts (that happened this morning). A nursery would never ever have the resources to do that!

Also for a pre 24month old, there is so much value being in the home environment. It isn't loud, and noisy, and artificial. In my 8yrs in childcare, I've never known and cared for children in the same way that I have looking after my mindees now.