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Original poster

Is she taking the piss?

115 replies

Minki · 30/06/2014 10:37

I have had a nanny for my two boys, aged 6 and 4, who started with us just over a year ago. My youngest starts school in September so the hours will drop from 40 hours per week to 20. The nanny knows this and I have discussed with her many times and asked her if she will consider staying. She said 20 hours is not enough and that she needs at least 30 but that she would try to find another job to supplement. That was about 2 months ago and she has so far not found another job. I kept saying, do you think you will stay as we can look into other options to boost your hours, e.g. nanny share, and I tried to find another family to give her extra work in the morning, but she has not seemed v interested in any of these suggestions but told me she was applying and interviewing for other jobs. I have also said that we would be happy to use her on just a few days a week if she got a full time position on other days but again, o response. I then decided, in early June, to get an au pair as I desperately needed to reduce the amount of £££ I was spending on childcare (I am literally living off my credit cards trying to make ends meet), and also because I was concerned the nanny would get another job and leave at any point. I therefore dropped her hours to 20 hours per week and am using an au-pair for the extra hours (which means I am spending £280 per week as opposed to £400, plus tax, NI etc). Thing is, I can't really afford £280 per week and would prefer to just use the au-pair, who is sat around not doing much most of the time, but didn't because I was trying to do this right thing by the nanny and keep her happy so that she would stay with us into September. I then get called yesterday by another parent asking for a reference. I gave her a good reference but she then tell me that the position the nanny is interviewing is for only 3 days after-school. I am then massively confused. I then text nanny to mention that someone has called me for a reference, which i gladly gave, but then said, do you know the position is only 3 days a week after school, and so I am offering more hours. I then said, I assume then that you are leaving and so I should look for someone else to start in September? She then said, I don't know yet, its too early to decide etc. I have now concluded that she simply doesn't want to stay with us but is not telling me until she gets another job and it has really really upset me as it feels like she is using me and has rejected the children. I have said several times, even if you stay for a few days per week that would be great as continuity for the children, but it seems she won't even consider this as she is applying for the same job, in fact, even fewer hours. This is not the first time we have been badly let down by a nanny. Really had enough.

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MellowAutumn · 30/06/2014 13:58

The mucking around remark is just so funny :)

MellowAutumn · 30/06/2014 13:57

Minki, you are an employer and yes legally as you are so keen to stress were in the right, but basically not making a decision and sticking to it, plus giving having her worry about her wages on as you put it a monthly basis since January ( that would make you a joy to work for I'm sure- was it every time you handed over her wages ?but without actually doing anything about it except saying September and then changing it to now' - but expecting her to take the wage cut on the nose and be 'honest' with you , is yes all just a bit shifty. The fact you cannot see how unreasonable and unprofessional you are just sort of confirms it.

Original poster
Minki · 30/06/2014 13:53

And yes MellowAutumn, as an employee you do owe your employer a duty of honesty and good faith. If looking after kids that duty is surely heightened. I know of several other families in similar situations where they asked the nanny months ago what their plans were and the nanny has given a firm yes I will stay, no I won't, none of this mucking around, withholding information etc.

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Original poster
Minki · 30/06/2014 13:50

The communications about her role have all been in writing, with double the amount of notice required, preceded by me telling her months in advance what I had planned. No surprises at any time. The communications by text where when I received a surprise call over the weekend from someone asking for a reference. I didn't even know I had been put as a referee. I was that "shitty" that I gave a good reference but we were both slightly confused as to why the nanny was applying for a 3 day a week after school position on the basis that she needs more hours, when I am offering her a 5 day a week after school position. I have essentially had the offer open to her for the last 3 months at least. I think if the offer is not accepted then I am entitled to make my own plans.

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Original poster
Minki · 30/06/2014 13:46

Not remotely "shitty" that I didn't continue in an arrangement I could no longer afford for the sake of keeping someone who didn't want to stay but hadn't bothered to tell me. I told her at the start of the year that I was struggling with £400 per week and said on an almost monthly basis that I would have to get an au pair so she has been well aware of this sometime. I am absolutely entitled to drop her hours without being called SHITTY. So she is allowed to do what works for her financially but I can't?

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MellowAutumn · 30/06/2014 13:39

And no I don't think she owes you any honesty, you cut her hours 3 months before you said you would - as you say completely legally - but it was still a shitty thing to do.

MellowAutumn · 30/06/2014 13:37

Just give her notice, she probably doesn't have a clue what to do and is just applying for anything. You had the right to cut her wages but seam to have no understanding of its probable impact.

BerylStreep · 30/06/2014 13:36

I can understand why your nanny is pissed off. You told her she was having her hours cut in September from 40 to 20, yet you brought that forward by 3 months and cut the hours in June.

I'm not sure that communicating by text is the best way to deal with this either.

Arranging childcare at this age is really tough - we have all been there. I have had nannies, used day care, used a childminder, and now use after school club.

Nanny was great, but expensive and you are dependent on one person, who can let you down. My DC hated daycare, as did I, and in any event, it is usually prohibitive in terms of just after-school childcare. Our CM was fantastic, and DS's school now has a fantastic after-school club.

I think your best bet is to give notice now, use the AP during the summer, and then try to either get another AP or a CM.

STOPwiththehahaheheloling · 30/06/2014 13:29

Yes you should.

Original poster
Minki · 30/06/2014 13:27

And you too MellowAutumn, if you think it's right that an employee doesn't at least owe you a degree of honesty. I have been beyond fair in this, my only fault is to try to keep employing her. I should have just terminated her employment.

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STOPwiththehahaheheloling · 30/06/2014 13:25

You are absolutely entitled to reduce her hours, it was the fact that you stated one of the reasons for doing so was to put pressure on her to give you an answer. That is dodgy ground for an employer to be on.

I should clearly expect no communication as to what she intends to do in September but be prepared for her to resign at any point

You should expect clear and honest communication and if after being asked she still doesnt give it then you are entitled to end her employment with you. Dropping her pay to make her life uncomfortable so she will be pressured into giving an answer is very underhand.

MellowAutumn · 30/06/2014 13:22

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Original poster
Minki · 30/06/2014 13:13

I didn't give her notice before as she had told me that she would try to find a way to stay by looking for a supplemental job with additional hours and so I hoped she would find a way to stay. She is obviously not doing this. I should also add that at the same time I dropped her hours I arranged a nanny share with another family 3 days a week from 11.30-3 so she gets an extra £100 per week from that, plus I am still paying her for 20 hours so she is not currently out of pocket at all.

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Original poster
Minki · 30/06/2014 13:08

Legally, I am absolutely entitled to reduce her hours. I gave her a month's notice instead of her contractual notice of 2 weeks before I reduced. I should clearly expect no communication as to what she intends to do in September but be prepared for her to resign at any point. The only way to prepare for this is to give her notice and hire someone else.

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Original poster
Minki · 30/06/2014 13:05

Then she is free to resign isn't she? AND I have given her notice, loads of notice in fact.

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Original poster
Minki · 30/06/2014 13:02

Not sure AT ALL Annie. Don't know where you live but nurseries around here are at least £80 per day, usually £90, and that's for one child. I would have to find after-school care for my older son. And I cannot think of anything worse than taking my 4 year old on the tube with me to work to leave him at a nursery nearby, all of which are more expensive. I also HATE nurseries and would never leave my child in that setting.

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MellowAutumn · 30/06/2014 13:01

You may be a single mother but you are still an employer and she is still an employee. She owes you now extra loyalty because you are struggling, can you imagine how it must be for her to have her wages cut in half?

STOPwiththehahaheheloling · 30/06/2014 12:59

When I realised that person wasn't engaging with me in a sensible discussion about the options or even communicating to me what she was doing, I decided that perhaps I should not be pulling out all the stops to keep her

Yes, so why didnt you give notice? She wasnt being open with you, she wasnt giving you any answers so why keep her on at all? Because it suited you to keep her on but pay less. You were happy to ignore her lack of communication as long as it suited you. But now suddenly when she takes the initiative to look elsewhere for work you are using the lack of communication as justification for cutting her pay, hoping that she would panic and give you the answer you wanted.

Original poster
Minki · 30/06/2014 12:59

And yes, I have had previous nannies including one who got pregnant 2 months into the job then went off sick for 2 months, back a month, off a month and expected full pay for sick days. I also had to find temp nannies at no notice when she didn't turn up, leave them with strange temp nannies they had never met before, then have the privilege of paying her out redundancy and holiday pay which amounted to over £2k, and had the luxury of paying an agency a recruitment fee on a new nanny. Lucky me! Oh and I also got divorced last year (my ex had an affair and left) which is why my income has reduced considerably but I wanted to keep the nanny to provide stability for the children. I thought i could last a year until the little one went to school. Again, silly me.

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AnnieLobeseder · 30/06/2014 12:59

Nurseries and childminders are a lot less expensive. If you have a long commute, I found that using a nursery near work made more sense.

Nannies tend to be the most expensive childcare option.

Original poster
Minki · 30/06/2014 12:55

Er, no, I can't afford it which is why I am 30k in debt. I was holding out until September when my little one goes to school. What other options would you like me to look at, please do tell? Or should I give up my job?

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Original poster
Minki · 30/06/2014 12:53

Yeah, right! Don't make me laugh. Actually, I love my children a lot and would have dug myself deeper into debt for the sake of continuity. When I realised that person wasn't engaging with me in a sensible discussion about the options or even communicating to me what she was doing, I decided that perhaps I should not be pulling out all the stops to keep her and should do what made sense to me financially, which is to drop her hours. Can you afford to pay £400 a week out of the goodness of your heart? Can you? Your response is a joke and you have NO IDEA what I have been through with nannies whilst trying to hold down a full time job as a single mother. Kindly take your misinformed comments somewhere else.

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STOPwiththehahaheheloling · 30/06/2014 12:52

Can you afford £400 a week plus TAX and NI (on a single salary I hasten to add as I am a single parent)? I can't.

A single salary could be anything from £100 a week to £10,000,000. The term single salary means nothing unless you specify what the salary is. Plus, you clearly could afford it as you had been doing it for a year (you also mentioned other nannies, so i assume longer than a year)

STOPwiththehahaheheloling · 30/06/2014 12:49

Actually i didnt miss the part where you said it was bankrupting you. I saw it.

I dropped the hours because I couldn't get a straight answer from her as to what she was going PLUS it was bankrupting me. I would have somehow found the money to keep on paying her until September in order to keep her but when it became unlikely that she would stay dropped the hours. I also though it would put pressure on her to make a decision.

You say you would have found the money to keep her until september but didnt because you realised she wouldnt be staying and that you wanted to put pressure on her to give you an answer. Dont try and pretend this was just about your finances. That was a nasty move!

Original poster
Minki · 30/06/2014 12:37

Yes, it is completely legal thank you STOPwiththe (begin unfair). Why wouldn't it be? You also missed the second part of the sentence which said "AND because is was bankrupting me." Can you afford £400 a week plus TAX and NI (on a single salary I hasten to add as I am a single parent)? I can't.

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