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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

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Original poster

Is she taking the piss?

115 replies

Minki · 30/06/2014 10:37

I have had a nanny for my two boys, aged 6 and 4, who started with us just over a year ago. My youngest starts school in September so the hours will drop from 40 hours per week to 20. The nanny knows this and I have discussed with her many times and asked her if she will consider staying. She said 20 hours is not enough and that she needs at least 30 but that she would try to find another job to supplement. That was about 2 months ago and she has so far not found another job. I kept saying, do you think you will stay as we can look into other options to boost your hours, e.g. nanny share, and I tried to find another family to give her extra work in the morning, but she has not seemed v interested in any of these suggestions but told me she was applying and interviewing for other jobs. I have also said that we would be happy to use her on just a few days a week if she got a full time position on other days but again, o response. I then decided, in early June, to get an au pair as I desperately needed to reduce the amount of £££ I was spending on childcare (I am literally living off my credit cards trying to make ends meet), and also because I was concerned the nanny would get another job and leave at any point. I therefore dropped her hours to 20 hours per week and am using an au-pair for the extra hours (which means I am spending £280 per week as opposed to £400, plus tax, NI etc). Thing is, I can't really afford £280 per week and would prefer to just use the au-pair, who is sat around not doing much most of the time, but didn't because I was trying to do this right thing by the nanny and keep her happy so that she would stay with us into September. I then get called yesterday by another parent asking for a reference. I gave her a good reference but she then tell me that the position the nanny is interviewing is for only 3 days after-school. I am then massively confused. I then text nanny to mention that someone has called me for a reference, which i gladly gave, but then said, do you know the position is only 3 days a week after school, and so I am offering more hours. I then said, I assume then that you are leaving and so I should look for someone else to start in September? She then said, I don't know yet, its too early to decide etc. I have now concluded that she simply doesn't want to stay with us but is not telling me until she gets another job and it has really really upset me as it feels like she is using me and has rejected the children. I have said several times, even if you stay for a few days per week that would be great as continuity for the children, but it seems she won't even consider this as she is applying for the same job, in fact, even fewer hours. This is not the first time we have been badly let down by a nanny. Really had enough.

OP posts:

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

STOPwiththehahaheheloling · 30/06/2014 17:37

Please tell me you are aware of how uncalled for your nasty posts have been. You are aware this is not an appropriate way to talk to people or react to opinions you disagree with. You do have at least that awareness, right?

Original poster

Minki · 30/06/2014 17:31

Tell you what, I'll fire the nanny and swallow a pack of valium?? That would make you all really happy right.

OP posts:

BristolRover · 30/06/2014 17:31

holy cow. The au pair's going to get both barrels sooner or later.

YOu asked for opinions. my childcare arrangements & affordability with mortgage don't really come into it, and while you'd like to think that your ex cheating is somehow my fault / MN's fault -it's not. You are unlikely to get constructive help by treating people like this professionally, socially or as an employer.

Original poster

Minki · 30/06/2014 17:30

Yes, and you are all really delightful. Yes, I am shit at my job too, that's why they keep employing me. Keep going, go on. Nice witch hunt for this EVIL bitch who tries to keep a long term nanny on for her kids.

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AChildminder88 · 30/06/2014 17:29

Minki there is no need to go down that road.

Does your nanny have a contract?

Could it not just be that she was waiting until she had to give notice before telling you what she was going to do? If you originally said Sept you would reduce her hours, in her mind, and mine, could she not be thinking, oh ok, so I don't have to tell her my plans until second week in August??

If you wanted to know before hand, you should have put it in writing, a final date in which you would like to know her plans. As I said in previous post, she must be feeling really disorientated. What if she had said to you she will stay with you full time until sept, but then leave- would you have still reduced her hours? You originally said you did that to force her to make a decision- that's disgusting! How would you feel if your employer did that to you? You also said that you feel like you go above and beyond because you pay her tax.

I don't know if you have said things for affect, or because your annoyed, but the responses you got came about because of what you said. Perhaps reread this thread, and then you will be able to understand some of your replies more clearly.

STOPwiththehahaheheloling · 30/06/2014 17:24

Oh you really are lovely.

STOPwiththehahaheheloling · 30/06/2014 17:23

Was it really wise to get 30k into debt in order to stay in a house that has an extortionate mortgage?

For a lawyer you certainly dont speak with a professional attitude here. Telling people to shut up? How do you cope with troublesome cases? Tell your clients to shut up or piss off?

Original poster

Minki · 30/06/2014 17:23

And how much does the CSA order Bristol?? Again, do tell?? Is it possibly 20%? And what if that person is earning nothing? 20% of nothing, right??? Yes, valium is about the only sensible suggestion you have had. Next time I will get a prescription of valium instead of even thinking about consulting mums net. Useless nannies, cheating exes, work stress I can all deal with - smug twats on mums net just sends me over the edge.

OP posts:

BristolRover · 30/06/2014 17:20

CSA->

BristolRover · 30/06/2014 17:18

your needs and those of your kids don't enter into a legal employer / employee relationship, no. It's a very unusual situation with domestic employees / small family businesses. Employees don't work out of the goodness of their heart, it's a job

Original poster

Minki · 30/06/2014 17:18

Again, the pure arrogance and IGNORANCE. Try getting the other parent to contribute??? Now yes, did I not spend 30k last year going to court to fight to stay in the martial home after my ex had and affair, left us then wanted us out? It cost 30k but I won. How else would you like me to get him to contribute? Again, please do tell otherwise shut up.

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Original poster

Minki · 30/06/2014 17:15

Where did I say I expected her to thank me for it and that I didn't think she should look for other jobs? Where? All I objected to was the complete lack of clarity and being strung along until she finds another job. It may be fair enough she is looking but at least allow me to look for another nanny. My needs and those of my kids don't count, right??? You earn it by having a better paid job? The arrogance. Even earning 3 x what my nanny earn does not make it affordable, not with tax, mortgage and other costs. Not at all. Do you live in London and spend an extortionate amount on a mortgage? Probably not if you are giving your nanny a car allowance.

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BristolRover · 30/06/2014 17:14

I wasn't aware we were competing over household expenses. For 5 yrs I covered it myself,now I share. Try getting your offspring's other parent to contribute or cut your cloth according to what you can afford. Not sure why you ask how I pay then get snippy when I tell you. It makes you sound like you should take a deep breath and step away from the keyboard for a while

Original poster

Minki · 30/06/2014 17:10

And BristolRover, do you afford that all by yourself or do you have a partner helping? Lets make sure we have a level playing field here. I have absolutely no objection AT ALL to her leaving, or staying, I would just like to be told and not mucked around. Nor do i expect a thank you for the reduced hours, again, I have offered her a job and would have liked the courtesy of a response rather than having to assume from her conduct (and from phone calls from potential employers) that she doesn't want it.

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BristolRover · 30/06/2014 17:05

Ok, you asked... I employ a nanny on a contract which sets out her hours. I pay her tax adn NI and car mileage allowance, out of my taxed income. There's probably some VAT on the expenses I pay so TRIPLE that taxation. I afford it by having a better paid job than her.
If your employer lost a big client and turned to you tomorrow and said that you're only required 4 hours a day, but on each day of the week rather than squashed into 3 days, I suspect you'd start looking for another firm because you would be unable to pay your mortgage on that basis. I doubt the partnership would start railing against you heading off to Michael Page under those circumstances. Nobody is suggesting you're being shitty for reducing her hours, what you're being shitty for is expecting her to thank you for the reduced hours and accept it without examining her own options and going and finding herself a job that suits her own economic needs, and for getting so aggressive
What other people do when their need for childcare hours reduces is either pay an uplifted salary for the reduced hours if the nanny agrees it (which of course they don't have to) / get wraparound care from a childminder / use an au pair instead with holiday clubs as well.

Original poster

Minki · 30/06/2014 17:05

I am employing both because an au-pair is £80! Over the summer holidays I will need 50 hours a week which is £500 which I cannot afford. At least this way I will be paying 20 hours or £200 to the nanny and £80 to the au-pair, so a total of £280. I was also worried (and it seems with good reason) that the nanny can give me 2 weeks notice at any point at which point I am totally screwed. I also need babysitting and am often late back from work, all charged at £10 an hour. It all racks up to a massive amount. The au-pair has only been working for 2 weeks (she moved in early June and started on 16th) and is amazing and it is already making a huge difference financially. I am spending £280 a week instead of £400.

OP posts:

Blondeshavemorefun · 30/06/2014 16:57

Didn't reliese you did the other au pair holiday thread.

The nanny has a gross salary which the employer deducts ni and tax from - you are not doing anything amazing by paying the tax and no

Why employ an au pair since June to sept as well as a nanny. That's double childcare and money you can't afford

Seems you need to give notice to your nanny - or she may be reading this now -

But yes if 2 weeks notice you will need to make sure you have childcare and also possibly pay nanny holiday depending what she has taken over the months

Hope your ap works out

And no one is perfect but employers treat their nannies with respect and how they would like to be treated - maybe that's why their nannies stay

AChildminder88 · 30/06/2014 16:57

A nanny is the most expensive though minki unfortunately if you employ one, you just have to put up with the cost of one...I assume you looked into the costs prior to employment?

I'm not sure what response you were expecting from people on here...I don't think the nanny is to blame for your current situation.

I hope the au pair proves to be a much more successful arrangement.

Original poster

Minki · 30/06/2014 16:50

And yes, I object to paying tax and NI on her wages on my salary that has already been taxed. Yes I do. It's called DOUBLE TAXATION. How on earth do you want people to afford this? Childcare in this country is not affordable unless you are minted or on the breadline.

OP posts:

Original poster

Minki · 30/06/2014 16:48

I don't think I go over and above BECAUSE I pay TAX and NI but I would like to point out that I DO PAY tax and NI and many many don't. I have gone over and above in being accommodating/flexible with this person (please stay, even for 1/2/3/4 days per week etc, given her months to decide, not fixed a deadline etc) and was continuing to pay her for 20 hours per week when I could just be using an au-pair as i) I didn't want to cut her off when she does not have another job and ii) I was hoping he would stay on. I was saying this in face face of being accused of being SHITTY because I had to reduce her hours FOR GENUINE ECONOMIC REASONS. And yes thank you Bristol, nannies are definitely "not right" for me. "Childcare" in general isn't right for me. I would like to look after my kids myself but can't as someone needs to pay the mortgage and bills and buy food? Can I ask you all how you manage given that you are all so perfect? Do please tell so I can correct my awful SHITTY ways.

OP posts:

BristolRover · 30/06/2014 16:41

she's not ridiculous, just some of the comments...
I often find my teeth itching with rage when I read the employment boards when there are mass outpourings of "go and get yourself signed off sick for the next two weeks" when people have had a spat with a colleague or similar, as if screwing over employers is just the done thing, but then you find employers who think that paying tax and NI are a privilege / added bonus and it confuses me.

BerylStreep · 30/06/2014 16:38

Bristol watch out, you're not allowed to point out that the OP is being ridiculous.

ADishBestEatenCold · 30/06/2014 16:26

Maybe shouldn't give her two weeks notice just yet, Minki.

That would mean she finishes up around the 14th of July and I've just noticed your other current thread saying your Au Pair would like to take holiday until the 16th!

Probably best not to give that two weeks notice until the the 3rd.

BristolRover · 30/06/2014 16:20

you think that you go over and above as an employer by doing what is legally required of you in terms of tax and NI?
I really am not convinced that employing a nanny is right for you. You may well find a childminder suits you better.
you're a lawyer, you should realise how ridiculous some of your comments sound.

Original poster

Minki · 30/06/2014 15:52

I did actually. The first few comments on this thread were helpful. The rest was based on a load of rubbish. "I tell her every month about my money problems" Er, no I don't but even if I did that would be appropriate. If you make someone redundant you go through a consultation process which involves informing them of the reasons why you are making them redundant, which is a critical process of making it fair, as is providing notice. Legally I have done everything right (and I do know, I am a lawyer) so I don't need the (mostly wrong) legal tit bits, just wanted to to understand what this person is doing, should I assume she is staying and not recruit anyone or should i assume she is leaving. The first few posts at least answered that, as have some friends in a similar situation, the rest just turned into a tirade of shit.

OP posts:

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