Our mortgage company doesn't normally allow working from home, but were quite happy for me to cm from here. When we were sorting it all out, the adviser was very pro cm, having relied on one for her own children. She helped with the home insurance too as that could have been a problem due to my job. Is it working from home, ie the home being a business or the actual childminding aspect that is the problem? They were able to differentiate in my case and we now gave a mortgage and I am still working as a cm despite the first conversation we had with the bank.

Just a suggestion but not sure if it would wrk , your friend was obviously happy to work for you for 3 days and earn 4.50 an hour as a childminder so could you not wrk out how much tht equals ( should cover 2 days childcare ) pay her as a nanny tht amount for 2 days child care ( should also be above min wage ) then on the 3rd day she just watches your child for free in her house as your friend . Your not out anymore money and she's receiving the amount she was originally happy to receive

As long as the host house so to speak is happy with making any changes that Ofsted say you need to make, then there is no prob. With regards to insurance, you are insured for the property on your certificate, so if Ofsted say it's ok, so sill insurers. Certificates, RA and all important documents can be kept at host house , in a locked box, which PACEY actually sell.

As I have said all through this thread, I am certain it's possible! But we aren't the higher authority in this, it's Ofsted so you have to check with them x

Nannynick that document does seem to say that it is still possible for a childminder to provide care in a mindees home (subject to the proviso about numbers etc). However, looking at the document which Karoleann linked to earlier, it doesn't seem there is any practical way to fulfil the requirements e.g. (and just as an example) CMs have to undertake a risk assessment of the premises at least once a year. What happens if there is something in the home (which is not theirs) which they considered unsafe? The CM has no authority to change it and the parents may not want to change whatever it is. Where does the CM display her registration certificate, keep all her H&S files, RAs? How does liability insurance work? Is the CM providing her own First Aid kit and storing it at the mindees home as this is a requirement for childminding or is she allowed to rely on whatever chaotic First Aid supplies may be available at the home? If all the normal requirements don't apply once they are not in their own home, it rather makes a mockery of the rules, doesn't it?

AIM88, I can't see where Ofsted says they don't permit it...

Guide to Registration on the Childcare Register says

====
Childminders work with no more than two other childminders or assistants. They:

• care for children at a private dwelling that is not the home of one of the children, or
• care for children from more than two families wholly or mainly in the home of one of the children

So as that is a current guide, Ofsted are saying that it is permitted but it has to be for "more than two families" so it means 3 or more families (why can't they put 3 or more, rather than more than 2?).

Where as a Home Childcarer is defined in the same document as:

==== A person aged 18 or over who cares for the children aged from birth to 17 years of no more than two families at any one time wholly or mainly at the home of one of the children.

So in my view, the number of families involved is a factor in if it is Home Childcarer or Childminder. The Childcare (Exemption from Registration) Order 2008 sets out what the exemption is from registering as a childminder and in that it says:

==== 3(1)(a)(ii) a child or children for particular parents (“the first parents”) and, in addition, for a child or children for different parents (“the second parents”), wholly or mainly in the home of the first parents or the second parents or in both homes;

So that bit is what makes nannies exempt from registering as a childminder. Thus if it is more families involved (so more than 2 families) then it does fall under registration as a childminder.

In x3ja's case, the person concerned does not want to care for any other children... so if they provided the care at x3ja's home, then they would fall under the exemption and thus Ofsted may try to insist that they can't be a childminder.

So in my view the key thing is the number of families involved. To be childminding it needs to be 3 families or more. Two is not enough.

Could you work out a way of swinging it so that you are doing a nanny share with HER as the family you are nanny-sharing with?

It may work better if her child's father is involved in the transaction so she's not employing herself. Then your friend A is employed as a nanny-share by you and CF, each paying £4.00 p/h to A, who then does have to pay tax and NI on that but the effective cost to you is similar to CM fees.

It would not work though if there was no intention to care for other children. Caring for children from FamilyA and FamilyB would not be enough, that can be done as a home childcarer.

I would not suggest going down childminding from your home route.

Nannynick- I wander what would happen if you had registered and been inspected when Ofsted used to allow it, but now apparently don't? What would happen to that CM?

As I've said in previous posts I know of people who do this, and have been doing for years, I find Ofsted incredibly frustrating when there is little consistency!

Ofstead certainly did allow it. Problem is that things change so a recent update to guidance may have changed it but I wonder if the legislation was changed.

Would someone not wanting to be a childminder want their home inspected by Ofsted and changes made to it?

Hey unexpected- they have been running for years, and are very well established/known in the area. In april Ofsted visited and they got their 5th consecutive Outstanding- so they can't possibly be doing anything wrong, if you know what I mean. They definitely provide care in children's homes, as the host parent gets a reduced rate for that quarter.

Best advice (as we are all saying different things) is talk to Ofsted. X

Are you absolutely sure she can't just register as a childminder from her own house? I certainly never let my mortgage provider know when I registered. All my childminder friends have mortgages too and have managed to register with no problems. Can't she just not tell them?

AM188 if I was part of the group of which you are speaking, I'd be a bit worried after reading the document on that link! Although if they are all registered as childminders and are moving between each other's houses only, rather than the homes of the mindees, that might be ok.

The situation where you registered as a childminder and worked out of your mindees home did exist but only for a short while and hasn't been allowed for some time. Now that role seems to be called home childcare.

It seems fairly clear that today a CM cannot register as such and then provide care in the mindees home.

So you can be a cm in another property as long as the children you are looking after aren't living in that premises

Karolann- that's exactly what I did, at Ofsted suggestion, I know the inspectors are exceptionally inconsistent, but I didn't think they were that bad!

I'm trying to message OP a link to people that I know who do this, but it's not working somehow. I'm not keen to post on here because it reveals too much about me and my work (sorry!) x

I'm trying to message you x3ja, but it's not working, I will try again later!

www.ofsted.gov.uk/resources/factsheet-childcare-requirements-for-childcare-register-childminders-and-home-childcarers

No, you can't child mind in a child you look after's house.

[http://www.ofsted.gov.uk/resources/factsheet-childcare-requirements-for-childcare-register-childminders-and-home-childcarers]]

it says further down that you would change to be a home childcarer (rather than a childminder) and therefore can't be self employed.

I thought that possibility of being a childminder and working out of someone's else home had been closed off? Could someone please link to some information which shows that is still possible? Not doubting anyone, but it would be interesting to read that it still exists.

Childminders only need to work from a domestic property. It doesn't have to be their domestic property.

Blondes- you absolutely can legally be a Childminder in someone else's home, Ofsted actually suggested I do it that way (long story- I had 3 families as a nanny share, couldn't register as a nanny, my flat wasn't suitable for three children, so I registered as CM in one parents house)

OP call Ofsted, speak to them, there is a solution!! (Providing your happy to have your friend CM in your home)

I will pm you the link rather than posting on here as it gives a way a lot about me! X

Im not sure the op could register her property and then her friend be a cm there legally

A link for what you say would be good

Cm either work from their own home or secure a property to work from attached to their home

Agree be wary working/employing friends

As I said before I think if you can only afford a cm/£4.50ph then you need to use another cm

She could be a childminder in your home.

A CM isn't defined a someone who looks after children in their own home, just a domestic property!

When I first started CM that's how I did it. It's rare, but not unheard of. I registered with Ofsted as normal, and rather than inspecting my property, they looked at the chosen parents house. I've since moved into my own place, and just switched the address on my CM registration.

In fact, where I live in NE London, there is an organisation of CM that work together, they rotate between houses. If you wanted more info on them I can send you their website link!

I am a nwoc and know many others. It's not the same as a nanny share because your working for an employer who dictates when and where you work, what you do etc. my child fits in with my job and the requirements of my employer. Nwoc therefore get min wage. You are not providing her with free childcare. You are getting a nanny for far less than you would without their own child. In my area a nanny without child would earn appox £10 an hour. I earn £8 an hour because I take my child to work with me. I would endure your getting a bit of a discount than if you employed a nanny without her own child, maybe 20%. But that's it really. I've known dozens of nwoc over the years. This is the most you can reasonably expect to save IMO. £7 an hour for a nanny to come to your house is good deal unless your in an area where rates are considerably cheaper.

Just to introduce another, non monetary angle into thus, OP, I personally would be very wary of employing a friend as a nanny - business arrangements grafted on to existing friendships have a notoriously high casualty rate. It is hard to go from a relationship based on equality and personal liking to one where one person is paid to provide a service for the other - much harder for one party to ask for things to be done differently (or better) and much harder for the other to accept (even mild) criticism gracefully.

It's difficult enough when it's childminder and client but at least there both parties are equal in status, but where one friend is the employer and suddenly has all the "power" and the other is relegated to employee, I think you could be setting the scene for problems. Your children are the most important thing in your life and it's vital that you feel free to ensure they're being looked after to your standards - it is much easier to discuss problems and iron out difficulties with a stranger practising childcare professionally than a friend.

Maybe the difficulties your friend has had with becoming a childminder is an opportunity for you to reconsider your options.