Nanny not doing as required.....help.....

I agree with the last couple of posters too. Your children are too young for that kind of structured learning - that is what school is for! At 2-3 years old I would encourage lots of play, whether it be messy play, outdoor play, physical activities, imaginative play, even just leaving them with toys on the floor for a half hour. Play is hugely important in early years development. Flashcards/themes etc are a bit too involved for such young children, instead have a daily reading time where they boys sit with nanny and look and picture books and she can point things out/ask questions in that informal context. I think a lot of parents expect far too much from their young children, expecting them to be little geniuses before they start whatever pre-prep they've been signed up for since birth. I believe that kind of pressure serves only to exhaust and frustrate children as they know they can't do it (they are not ready developmentally for such structure), but cannot communicate this to their parents/carers in any way other than acting up. Instead of pressurising them (and nanny) with such an IMHO unreasonable list, just relax, let them play, get messy, explore their world, be social, ask questions, be little children for that little bit longer. When they start school, they will be that little bit more confident in themselves, even if they can't quite write their name or catch a ball. Childhood is so precious, don't wish it away. Have nanny write a daily log of things they have done, and have activities booked for each week too, so she can meet other nannies (ie swimming/music/dance). When I look after 2-3 year olds any learning we have done has been impromptu, like going to Kew Gardens in autumn and rolling in the leaves, then asking why leaves fall off the trees? You can incorporate a lot of learning in every day life, without having a weekly theme.

And I also strongly agree that you canot ask nanny to do something you would not be happy to do yourself. A nanny is not a school teacher. She is someone there to provide loving care of your children, including some educating ie numbers, the alphabet, seasons, cooking, etc. But the very nature of her job is a home based one not a classroom. Her care should nurture the child, not pummel it with constant educational experiences that are far beyond the comprehension of the child. If your child was, say 6 or 7 I would say differently. But they are 20 months and 2 and a half, thats way too young to pile on the pressure. Sorry to offend, if I have, but you are being unreasonable.

I'm not a nanny and I don't employ one. My first thought of reading your list was that you were being unrealistic. My boys are 2.6yo and I'm lucky if I can hold their concentration for more than a few minutes. For example, I give them crayons and blank piece of paper and after 5 minutes, they have had enough. When at home, all mine want to do is play and I let them get on with it.

IMO, I think your expectations are unrealistic, especially if you don't even do those things yourself.

agree with last two posters, which is why my early post said

Before you ask this nanny to do all of the above, have you tried to do it yourself particularly organising weekly themes.

There is one hell of a lot of stuff there ...

If you can do this routine for two weeks, then why not write it down and schedule everthing, you can teach her the routine.

NAB3 has said exactly what I was thinking in that I don't expect my nanny to do anything I wouldn't do myself and although my boys are now 8 and 5 and on a whole different level of activity, I don't think they would have had the slightest interest in weekly themes or flashcards at the ages of your sons. They would have enjoyed the ball games but they certainly wouldn't have caught anything. And all of these activities would have held their interest for - ooh, about a nano-second! If you can honestly say that you have been at home with them and have yourself maintained this kind of routine, then you probably need a different, more experienced nanny. But if you haven't done it yourself, maybe you honestly don't realise how difficult it is. Having spent a couple of years as a SAHM at around about the ages of your children, I have to say I found it exhausting! Of course, your nanny is going home at the end of the day but she is VERY young to be in charge of two chldren of that age and it sounds like it's just too much.

If you want to salvage the situation with this nanny, I think I would scrap some of the themes and flashcard activities and just be very firm about some of the other activities i.e. they must go to the library once a week for storytime (whenever that is), they must go to the park/playground/for a walk every day unless it is raining or cold. Arranging playdates or going out with friends is difficult - she simply may not know people to go out with and sometimes it can be jolly difficult to just "find" friends. My first nanny used to go to a M&T group with ds2 when she first started but was mostly ignored by the mothers (she was only nanny) and had a miserable time so I told her not to bother anymore and put her in touch with a friend of mine who also had a nanny and similar aged child. Can you help out in a similar way?

TBH What you have written is not usually what you would expect in a nanny's contract. I was a nanny for many years and now have three children of my own and I think you might be asking a bit too much. If you are looking for a reason to get rid I wouldn't bother. I would give her her months notice and be done. Be honest. If you want her to go, you want her to go and if she did all those things and you still wanted her out, what would you do then? It is hard to get out on your own sometimes and I once did a nanny share where for a couple of days before I started the Mumm took me to a couple of playgroups and introduced me to the playgroup leaders, who then did the same with some other nannies, and that helped. Reading you post my first thought was she is not a teacher and your children are quite young to be expected to be doing flash cards to read. Would you do all of the above if you were at home? Don't expect a nanny to do something you weren't prepared to do yourself. She might be unhappy too and actually want to leave you. Maybe it is time you had a chat....

hi
i was a nanny for many many years, and a good one at that i think, with many people offering me jobs and trying to poach me.i woul dhave refused a job if you gave me an itinery of what was listed below. Themes?she is a nanny, a replacement mum who should provide safe and stimulating activities. would you do a theme a week with your children? it is not a nursey. i also used to write a daily diary stating where we had been what had been,slept, eaten etc and any queries etc always written down. if you did this you could write rather than confront the nanny thatyou would like them to go to m& t or library a certain day. it is then written in black and white and you can query why it hasn't ben done. it is very hard work to be a good nanny.

I'm just one of the sheeple always on the lookout for a larf.

LOL

ok I have given myself away as a professional Project Manager

'Having bossed people around at work, I believe that only a small minority of people are capable of efficiently managing their own time.'

So, DC is actually a shepherd.

I always wondered.

We don't have a detailed formal list of nanny duties to the extent specifying that there should be "themes" etc. But we do expect there to be activities, and the nanny to "engage".

They get themes from other sources anyway so in our particular case would feel it might actually be too much to have one at home as well.

The questions I would ask her is what she was doing instead. She may simply lack time management skills, and not actually get round to it. I don't know if it makes me a crap dad, but when looking after the kids, doing the N things necessary like cook, deal with fights, investigate worrying silence, etc I rarely do all the things I wanted to do.

Also she may be doing good, but different stuff.
Our nanny took DS1 to an epping forest "mini beast" hunt. Quite happy for this to displace a trip to the library.

Of course she may be doing different but bad stuff. There is a whole swarm of social scientists who study the difference between what your boss tells you to do, and what you actually do. Applies to bankers, nannies and squaddies. Just part of the joy of management.

I think she needs a bit more hands on management.
Having bossed people around at work, I believe that only a small minority of people are capable of efficiently managing their own time.
Shopping with kids (for me) can soak up a huge amount of time.

I think questioning, and monitoring is the best way of fixing her behaviour, if it is fixable.

Ask her to write down how she spends each day.
Then sit down with her, and see how it can be improved each week.
Have a set of tick boxes for things that ought to happen.
I hate doing this stuff, and I rather think you might feel the same, but it's that or suggest to her that she should consider other career opportunities. She might be happier in a more structured environment like a nursery. Not everyone makes a good nanny, I wouldn't.

I'm tempted to do that for myself alwaysonthego

Carly

Here is your shopping / to do list for the week

2 x scrap books - for the boys to stick things in
2 x glue sticks for the above
1 x A5 line pad for daily notes
make up an A4 day sheet (for both boys on one sheet) on your PC - print it out 30 times (once for each day)
hole punch the above into an A4 ring binder
buy lots of boys stickers (fave theme) than she can use to reward for good behaviour on clothes or in day book
leave out passport + utility bill and make her task one day this week to join the library
find a mother and toddler group and tell her she is going (most don't start again until Sept
find a toddler music / dance class and tell her she is going to go (ditto September)
buy a cheap pop up goal post and show the boys how to kick the ball into it and she can be goalie
2 x suitable balls (for catch) those sponge water bombs are good - obviously without using the water ! - or may do if it makes the game more fun

you have to help her

good luck and remember this nanny is entitled to a lunch break, forget the dusting, that's not her job

get the childrens stuff spick and span yourself then ask her to maintain that level.

remember this is not a home boot camp, let the boys have some down time.

themes for a 20 month old?? You're being a bit ambitious.She may have tried it and found that the little one in particularl didn't get involved and so felt like she didn't know what to do.. I'd give her a specific list. "This week I want you to collect leaves on Monday, and set them out to dry, let the kids feel them, Tuesday stick with them- the activities may only last 10 minutes, so she may feel they don't count as themes iyswim. Then the next week "theme of baking, simple recipes for each day". She may have said she was worried about the ball hitting them for an excuse. Again she might not realise that any ball hitting/kicking activity in this age is going to last minutes, and may have tried something too ambitious in the past.

The playdate thing sounds like she's shy. Why not sign the kids up for some organised activities. Locally we have a "popkids" dance music session. It would suit you as it takes all pre-school aged kids so both of yours could go.

Re the diary- I;d really try to give her a structured tick chart. one thing I found when trying to get info out of ds1's various lsa's was that many people are not condifent about their writing when handed a blank piece of paper, but will happily give you the information if they only have to write one or two words. I decided what I needed to know then made up tick charts, and quick questions to get that info. It is easier if people are willing to write reams off the top of their heads (and more fun and nicer to keep) but some can't.

Carly, you might want to post a draft of the schedule here and see what others think of it. Then, if she fails to meet up to it you will be confident it was a fair expectation.

Do you have a nanny diary?

Oh Carly ....

Before you ask this nanny to do all of the above, have you tried to do it yourself particularly organising weekly themes.

There is one hell of a lot of stuff there and for someone who has just finished their cache training I think you may be asking too much for a first time sole charge nanny -

If you can do this routine for two weeks, then why not write it down and schedule everthing, you can teach her the routine.

Also have you got her the right equipment and actively manage her, ie big planning book and made up a daily book for her. Do you give her ideas in the book or leave it to her to decide, do you make time for an hour at least once a week to catch up with her - with no children around to discuss over coffee / glass of wine her how week is going and any concerns, scheduling issues.

Trying to leave her to her own devices with a list this long and it's no wonder the poor girl doesn't hit her objectives. My nanny wouldn't either !

If your boys like her, try changing how you mange her

I think mummydocs situation counts as gross misconduct though, this just sounds more like means well but needs a bit more direction (is she young?)