would you sack your nanny over this....

Is she away on holiday mummydoc or at home?

Whatever the grounds to sack or even just give notice on anyone you have to follow the new procedure introduced in 2004. The details are on the DTI web site under Employment bit. If you don't there's a special extra penalty of 1 - 2 months' wages for a start. It's not that hard to follow. I expect a lot of people don't bother and get away with it, though.

If she's been with you over a year she might claim unfair dismissal. If not she cannot make that claim but she still might have a claim because you haven't followed the right procedure, warnings, rights to reply etc.

Whether what she's done is wrong well it doesn't look very good but I had a nanny I wanted to go out and loved it the twins were out all day because I worked from home so it depends what you've told her. I've also over the years had some of the problems you mention too - we had one nanny spending a lot of time driving her husband around at the end of the day when the children should have been back here for tea (and we'd got her through her driving test!) etc

Her children could always cycle??

When i nannyed full time and now as a temp nanny i would NEVER leave my employers children with others without their permission.

It is completely wrong to do so.

I do feel that if it were me i would issue a written termination of employment from the date she is due back to work due to this gross misconduct and explain that she was to care for your children and was not given permission to outsource that responsibility.

As to the fraud in regard to the mileage at double salary in expenses.

Also not following your wishes in regard to your dds routine is a big no no in my career of 17+yrs in childcare.

I feel sure at 22 months your dd2 would love nursery.

From reading more recent posts, I think you have decided to give notice to the nanny, with notice period as stated in her contract. So as such, the sitation has been resolved.

However, for benefit of anyone else in a similar position (now or in the future), I'll give as view on the the initial posting, in which I can see there being a few issues which I want to pick up on.

1. Nannies own children are joining in on outings.

• when the nanny was hired, I presume you knew she had children. Was there any agreement regarding how her own children affected her work?

2. DD1 (school aged?) was left at friend house to play, without your consent.
3. DD2 (aged 22 months) was left with nannies daughter, without your consent.

Points 2 and 3 I feel are the most serious. I feel they are grounds in themself for instant dismissial.

I do not know what you have in the contract, but typically in a nanny contract, there will be a Gross Misconduct clause, which could be along the lines of;

Gross misconduct, which will result in instant dismissal includes the following: Actions which could endanger or cause harm to the children. Drunkenness or use of illegal drugs. Theft or dishonesty.

If you have used a standard nanny contract, you may have the following popular clause:

Misconduct which may be deemed gross misconduct includes but is not limited to theft, drunkenness, illegal drug taking, child abuse and violent or threatening behaviour (be it verbal or physical).

The first one of these is better for our given situation, as leaving the children with someone without your consent, could endanger or cause harm to the children.

The second one does not specify directly that leaving the children with someone else would be grounds for gross misconduct, but does (by saying not limited to) leave it open for you to say that such behaviour did amount to gross misconduct, if you wanted the nanny to leave, or grounds for a written warning if you wanted the nanny to stay.

Given that I see a nannies role as being to care for the children, the nanny should NEVER leave the children with someone else, without your consent. There are of course common-sense exceptions - such as at toddler group when the nanny needs to go to the toilet, I feel they could then ask another person to keep an eye on the children, while they nipped to the loo. However, they should not leave the premises.

Having a clause in the Gross Misconduct setion of the contract, directly relating to leaving the children with someone else, is a good thing to add. It helps to clarify what is expected of the nanny, and with luck helps to protect the children.

For those of you who may want to read more about disciplinary procedures, including how to write them, then I suggest Code of Practice book 1 (PDF) from ACAS.

mummydoc, agree your nanny is taking the piss, big time.

You asked for positive nursery experiences - DS goes to nursery 2 days a week, and loves it. He's been going since he was 11 months, and we've never had any problems. He's just moved to the bigger room with the older ones (2+), and his speech has come on massively, he's potty trained himself, having seen everyone else use the toilet, and often sings songs that I know I haven't taught him! He sometimes asks to go when it isn't a nursery day (does that say more about me though?? ). We did look at several nurseries, and I went with the one that instinctively felt right.

And you def won't be paying expenses and petrol on top!

Not sure about the contract thing, but if you give her notice like you've said, I can't see how she can complain really. I think it might be that as your previous contract has run out the law would say that you are basically employing her now on the same terms as under that contract, so if there are provisions about notice in there, I'd follow them.

I'd definitely get rid. Nursery will be more than adequate for her.

She is doing the job the way it suits her life, not the way you ask her to do it. That could maybe be sorted - specificaly ask her to return for dd's nap etc.
But I think leaving your dds with someone not employed by you, not agreed with you that she should do so, not (presumably) police-checked is serious dereliction of duty and quite shocking. How did you find out about this?

If you find the right nursery, your dds will have a really enjoyable experience - they are not babies anymore and will enjoy the company - and 3 days a week is not a lot at all.

If it was me (and i did employ a nanny for a while) I would sack her over the leaving your dd with friend and teenager as gross misconduct. Otherwise, what is your notice period? Tell her you are sending dds to mursery, give notice but be very direct and explict and say that she must not leave dds with anyone else AT ALL, and must bring home for dd2's naptime etc. i.e Manage her - which it sounds a little as if if you haven't done a lot of!

mummydoc, I think technically you can just end it. But, I don't think you can guarantee it would go your way if she wanted to take you to court. It is probably better to play it safe and give her notice.

However, I do think you could give her immediate notice based on gross negligence if you really wanted. But, I personally think it's better to have a month and part on good terms rather than immediate departure on ad terms wher she might decided to visit CAB and give you a rough ride.

I would probably make up something to end it on good terms. I would say I can't afford her, or nursery is better, or something else that is due to no fault of her own. Then,I'd write a very mediocre reference, leaving gaping holes, then when someone called me I'd tell them the truth... the whole truth.

muumydoc- not totally sure but fairly sure that emplyment law doesn;t see it that way. Even if you have an FTC if they have been with you for more than a year then you either have to make them redundant (which you could do, with notice, if you used a nursery) or sack them. If you just say the contract has ended, and then went out to get another nanny, then you haven't provided a good enough reason to get rid.

I might tolerate it from a family member, but certainly not from someone who I had employed for the job. She's taking huge liberties.