would you sack your nanny over this....

Only just seen this, and too late to be of use for you, but just in case it is relevant to anyone else - you can put a clause in the contract limiting the amount of mileage that can be claimed. I have a daily limit which is plenty to cover normal running around (school run, swimming etc), but doesn't give the nanny the incentive to increase. Of course if the nanny wants to go further afield for a specific day trip out then she can agree it with me upfrint, and I'll pay.

The reference issue is a tricky one but as the others have suggested, giving a very brief one along the lines of: she worked for me from x date to x date full stop, does speak negative volumes !!! I've done it before, but not for a nanny, and there was no legal comback against me. It would be true as far as it goes, but industry-wide the interpretation would be that her performance was not satisfactory. I've always put a reference like that straight in the bin. Definitely give your contact details too so that you can elaborate if anyone really wants to pursue such a ref.

I think quite often, a reference says more by the things it doesn't say than by what it does. Eg a ref that just says X worked for me from [ ] to [ ] like the one below doesn't give a great impression, but there isn't much you can do to argue with it! FWIW, I also think Pinsents is a good law firm, and their advice should be spot on. Good luck with it!

Mummydoc, you must be truthful and positive. If this means leaving gaping holes, then so be it. Definately leave your phone number and e-mail addres for potential employers to contact you (and then give them the unabridged truthful full story verbally).

You'll get a lot more responses if you start a new thread on "Reference for a not so great nanny -- what do I say?"

I would have shot the hooligan nanny, but Mummydoc your solution is infinitely more reasonable !!! I think you've shown her far more consideration than she deserves. Very glad you are settled and stress free again.

That's great. It sounds as though you've got a perfect solution now, and the children will get to spend more time with family as well. And it's good that you didn't have to have a row about it as well.

Bet the nanny will want a reference...!!!

Great news Mummydoc, so glad you have been able to work out a good solution.

Glad it worked out for you, mummydoc.

I'm still utterly shocked that your nanny took the mick like this and left your kids w/people you don't know w/o your permission.

I agree! and just think of the mileage you would be saving Your peace of mind is worth the money.

Getting rid immediately by giving her a month's notice now but not requiring her to work it would be best (money allowing); your children would be safe, you would avoid any more mileage swindling and the whole stress of the situation would evaporate !!! The nanny sounds an absolute horror. Good ridence.

If you can afford it then why not give her a months notice, pay her for that month but tell her you don't actually need her to work for that month. That way you get rid of her straight away and avoid any possible claims for unfair dismissal.

I am assuming that your nanny has been criminal records checked. Have her children also? As her children are aged 16 and over if they have not been CRB checked you could also say that she has left them in the care of a non CRB checked person which could definately endanger them.

A childminder has to have any children aged over 16 CRB's. If I employ a 17 year old student to work with children they have to be CRB'd. It isn't acceptable even if they are but might just add weight to your case.

Ok

As part of the process the nanny would need to be able to present details of what happened. She would also need to be presented with the evidence gathered. Therefore if going down that route, it would take a while following the nannies return to work - though she could be suspended on full pay while the investigation was taking place.

There is an issue as to if the action amounted to gross misconduct, or was just misconduct - as the contract didn't state the action would be considered as gross misconduct.

In terms of employee employer relationship, ending a contract on grounds of gross misconduct is I feel the lowest of all low points. So is it really worth persuing under gross misconduct, or is it better to put as a written warning and evaluate ongoing childcare needs - in this particular case changing to using a nursery?

NannyNick,

I was wondering,

Could mummydoc write informimg nanny of investigation into the gross misconduct and then upon nannys return from holiday present findings and then sack nanny and be within the rules??

I've had times when one of my childrens friends is here to play and so are my parents, I've needed to get something from the shops and my Mum offers to go - we both think that if the parent believes that you are looking after thier child you cannot leave them with another adult. Even if you know they are entirely trustworthy - it's not your call. I would be cross with another parent if they did this to me, let alone a nanny employed to look after the children.

Quite right MatNatPlus, some of us nannies do only work term-time, so can cover school holidays for other families... I'm in exactly that position, and did a couple of weeks temping at beginning of the summer holidays.

Is the nannies friend another nanny or a friend outside of work with her own children? If it's outside of work then i think it's especially bad. To be honest any good nanny wouldn't do this so yes i think it's immediate dismissal. I would never take any children of mine that i look after to a personal friends house to play even if the kids were the same age. I would be worried my boss thought i was slacking off and gossiping to my friend instead of looking after her child.

She sounds like she is not treating her job like a job but dragging your dds about a bit. And going to get a haircut OMG.

I think you should either go down the gross misconduct route and explain why or give notice and use nursery as an excuse.

Unfortunately I see the NannyJob specimen contract to be a little lacking when it comes to this particular clause. I feel a Gross Misconduct clause should be very much an Open and Shut case - it should list explicitly the actions that would result in instant dismissal, as there would be few of them.
However, that is just my view, so if you were to use that clause to dismiss someone, I would suggest contacting a lawyer as the clause does allow you to add things to it, but doesn't tell the employee in advance what those things are.

I feel you would certainly be able to issue a written warning, but going straight to dismissal could if the nanny challenged it, cause problems, as the contract does not state (in my view) sufficient examples of what consitutes gross misconduct. Therefore another option open to you would be to dismiss on notice. More info about Managing Misconduct

The DTI Dismissal - fair and unfair booklet may also be of help, in particular the bit titled: What is reasonable procedure and sufficient reason for dismissing an employee?

Located within the DTI website, I found an interesting document which mentions Gross Misconduct. file23903
It is a consultation document regarding Employment Act 2002. It says "if the employee complains to an employment tribunal, it will almost always be held to be unfair dismissal if the employer has dismissed immediately on or after becoming aware of the act of gross misconduct and without first investigating the circumstances".

Therefore, in situations of gross misconduct, procedures need to be followed, in terms of investigation of what happened, during which time the employee can be suspended on full pay.

To conclude, if the contracts states the reasons under which the employee can be instantly dismissed, then dismissal I would consider is reasonable. When however, it is left open as in the case of the contract in question, I feel that pushing for gross misconduct would be a mistake, as it could too easily be challenged. It would however warrant a written warning, and perhaps a review of the contract in which it is added to the gross misconduct section so that if it happened again, it would be instant dismissal.

There are a few childminders who take teachers children so therefore have spaces during school holidays.

Re school holidays, there seem to be aair number of nanny's who work for teachers so have the holidays off, maybe you could be lucky and find one who would be available for most of the weeks.

Also try Gumtree and www.sharingcare.co.uk

If you just needed a few days a week, a local agency that has temp nannies may be a solution?