Is my childminder overcharging me?

You agreed to this, signed the contract.

Not much you can do, apart from give notice

I know someone who fell out with her CM (used since Dc was a baby) over the holidays after her DC started school. Also paid monthly, not itemised so couldn't understand why cost didn't go down more.
CM took 6 weeks holiday at half rate. But that was half holiday rate (had Dc longer hours so more expensive) - she took time off during the school holidays.
Meant that 2 weeks over Christmas my friend had no childcare but was paying daily (slightly) more than during term time .
Also CM was cagey about the dates of her 2 weeks hol over summer. My friend booked 3 weeks holiday - knowing she would have to pay at least one week full rate. Cm then announced she was taking the following 2 weeks - so for 6 week summer holidays my friend paid full holiday rate for 4 weeks and half rate for 2 weeks (and holiday club etc for 2 weeks) and the CM looked after the child for 1 week! This happened two years in a row - although second year CM had DC for 2 weeks as friend delayed for a week and didn't tell CM before she'd announced her holiday dates. (And CM didn't look too pleased about that...) Friend did think that maybe it was to fit in with other mindees - but later found out another parent with a couple of DCs at same CM had had the same problem and went on holiday the same time as my friend did! (as would most parents here - Scotland starts its summer hols a couple of weeks before England so much cheaper to go before massive price hikes!!)
I think before school, when every day is the same rate it isn't such an issue but when it is the difference between 2 hrs and 8hrs a day...although maybe the CM just hasn't thought it through properly...

Can't ask other mums and pay them as over 2hrs so wouldn't be legal

Are there other cm local?

Hold on ... but she's averaged out from April to April and the OP is saying that her child only started school in Sept so there may be a whole lot of FT childcare included in this for one child before September.
Therefore I think the best thing to do is ask the childminder how she works her fees out.

That is a lot of money.

Could you approach one or two of the school mums and see if you could pay them to do the same; then you will only be paying for actual childcare?

Df (London) does wrap around childcare for 3 children who go to her dc school. 7am-9am and 3.30pm-7pm. She provides breakfast and an evening meal, she charges £7.50 per hour per child.

Wow at £21ph !!!

6 weeks paid at full whack is insane but you agreed to it

You need to chat with your cm and explain that either she drops the 6 weeks paid holiday or you have to give notice

Employing a nanny will cost prob £12/13 gross saving maybe £7ph plus employers ni

I haven't ploughed through all the maths, but by way of comparison, I pay my cm £1200 a month, she has dd and ds from 7am - 6.30pm 4 days a week. ds is in school from 8.30am - 3pm. She has ds all day during school holidays at an extra £20 a day. She takes 4 weeks paid holiday a year, 2 in the school holidays and 2 at christmas. We are in London. I think you are paying a lot and the 6 weeks paid holiday would be a deal breaker for me personally.

OP, wouldn't it be worth your while giving up your day job and becoming a childminder? That is such a lot of money to lose each month. If there's a good market for childcare in your area, that could solve your financial problems.

£21 an hour is an amazing amount to pay for childcare - I would definitely look for a nanny.

Ok I think I've got it. It's no wonder the OP is confused!

Each child - 7.5 hours x 39 + 15 hours x 7 = 397.5 hours of care for two children.

Total spend for both children is £8400. £8400/397.5 = approx £21 an hour. So each child is costing £10.50 an hour.

Alternatively you could say (7.5 hours x 2 children) x 39 + (15 hours x 2) = 795 total hours for both children.

£8400/795 = £10.50 for each hour of childcare.

If she's paying 10.50 total then that's only 5.25 per child right?

I'm so confused!

Those are the total hours, not hours per child I think.

But don't you need to divide by two? So 5.25ph per child, which is towards the higher end, but not way over market rates, particularly if OP is in London.

There is some funny maths going on here, let's just check:

During 39 weeks of term time she has 2 children for 7.5 hours each week, so 15 hours for 39 weeks = 585 hours (what happens on May Bank Holiday and INSET days?)

During 13 weeks of school holiday she does not provide her service for 6 weeks and so she has 2 children for 15 hours each week so 30 hours in total for 7 weeks = 210 hours (what happens on Bank Holidays?)

So in total she provides 795 hours of child care for £700 x 12 = £8,400. That is over £10.50 per hour (or more if she doesn't provide her service on Bank Holidays or INSET days) - doesn't matter where you are, that's way over the market rate.

If you are paying for 30 hours x 6 weeks holiday which you could never use anyway then you are being overcharged
I agree cm need to cover their holiday but to charge after school children a 30 hr weekly rate is definitely off!

It's hard to say whether she is over charging you or not. I'm in the south east, the average charge around here is £5.63 per hour, some don't include food in this!! There are no definite guidelines for CM, so in affect we can charge what we like. If you have signed a contract, then any queries you now have, is your problem, your CM may not be willing to change. By all means share your concerns with them but it sounds about right!

Just as a side note- As a CM it makes my blood boil when people question whether I deserve to charge for holidays just because I'm self-employed. Some CM's charge a retainer, some do as your CM does, and charger extra per hour throughout the year. After my expenses (which are as minimal as I can make them) I earn a little less than minimum wage, so if I didn't have some kind of fees for holidays, I would never be able to afford to have time off!

How old are your children?

The six weeks paid holiday is the unusual bit. I thought the norm was 2 weeks paid holiday. The rest sounds normal though.

First you don't employ her so aren't liable for her sick pay,
Secondly it's not in the contract that you pay for sick costs so you aren't contractually liable to pay it. So stop paying sick.
Also it is very unfair that she works out her holidays at 30 hours not the 15 basic. She has 6 weeks which is 2 more than most cm I know. And she charges them at the max - talk about cake and eating it.
I would say the 15 is her contract basic and that is what the annualised cost should be worked out. You might be better off dropping the holiday contract or going term time only and taking your annual leave over the holidays and then getting a nanny for the other weeks.

All personal offence has been scratched change :-) My CM used to be a bookkeeper so she does all the calculations for deductions (and gives us our bill each month with all the workings shown, including any extra hours she does for us - she is a gem :-)

I would also add, that as she works closely with other CM's in our little town, if she's ever sick (which is rare) she usually lines up another CM to look after DS1 and offers that to us as an alternative, so we just pay her the same and she pays her stand in.

Can you not ask your CM for her hourly rate? Does she not give you the workings for the averages each year (if that's how she works - e.g., this is the cost for each month the coming year and this is how I work it out). I would expect that, at the very least (if only for you to double check - our CM is great, but has made the odd mistake now and again (sometimes in her favour, sometimes in ours) and by getting her calculations each months, we can check and let her know of any errors and if any money needs to be reimbursed or given to her.

Your CM does appear to be onto a good thing...

Our CM hasn't increased her rates in 5 years (she appreciates the old credit crunch etc) could it be worth speaking to her, saying that your skint and that you're trying to minimise costs just now and ask whether she'd renegotiate your contract with at least an average that excludes the holiday weeks? It's a reasonable request, she might say no, but then at least you can consider if you want to do anything about it (e.g. start scoping out an alternative?)

Can you use holiday clubs and after school clubs instead? Will your CM renegotiate the contract, based on your long standing relationship (I have done this in the past)? Either way, even if the holiday was unpaid, you are probably still paying a reasonable rate.