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Difficult situation

63 replies

Lifebythesea2323 · 21/10/2013 17:21

Hi
Regular poster posting under another name for confidentiality.
Situation. Apologies long post!
I look after two boys one eighteen months.
On Friday the oldest boy became unwell in my care. Vomited at midday.
Large projectile type vomit. He then continued to vomit multiple times. No temperature.

After the second vomit I contacted the mother to inform her. She asked to speak to son. He was crying and asking for her to come home. She told him she would. She eventually came home six hours later.
It was not a problem for me if she came home or not, I am happy to look after sick child. I am an ex nurse so well able to cope.

She then continued to ring with requests for example not to give any food (of course I knew that), and later to remove her other son from the room. She also asked other relatives to ring me. The younger child had been in the room when vomiting occurred so in my view had already been exposed. I had cleaned everywhere with anitiseptic and aired room too. I did as she said; although I felt it was my call to decide where the children were. The youngest is too young to leave for long in other rooms if I need to deal with older child vomiting. Older child was crying for mum and frightened by vomiting.
Anyway an hour and half after not vomiting and having tolerated fluids the little boy wanted to eat. I said no best to stick to fluids. We had squash and water. Child had a jelly he wanted, I said no. Anyway mum rang again, she said no he couldn't have the jelly, I reminded her jelly is semi liquid but no, she was coming home. Anyway another two hours passed. Now five hours from eating and over three from vomiting. The little boy is asking for jelly. So I gave him some couple of spoonfuls, no vomit, half an hour later repeated no vomit. Mum then arrived home.
Child happy now and running around the room. Younger child had gone to bed. Mother seemed happy.
However she rang the next day (day off) annoyed I hadn't followed her orders regarding the jelly. I asked her what the problem was with giving jelly. She said no problem with jelly, problem you not following orders. Well I told her she wasn't there and I made the decision based on her child's needs. I didn't do it to annoy her she clearly thinks I did.
She then mentioned I hadn't followed other orders previously. I was unaware of this as try to follow her book to the letter.
She then raised an incident where I hadn't given paracetamol at bedtime. However the little boy was not ill/no temperature so I had assumed she didn't want me to give. An in any case I am required by insurance to have written order.
Thought please....

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Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
FlorenceMattell · 21/10/2013 21:07

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Strix · 21/10/2013 20:57

oops...

Anyway, I would not give my nanny step by step instructions

Strix · 21/10/2013 20:55

Actually, I have an au pair now and we have a great relationship. I love her to bits. I do not treat her as you described. Likewise, she would never intentionally make her own call on a situation knowing it was contrary to my wishes. This is a good fit for us.

I think part of your problem is that you are overqualified for the role your employer wants you to fill. She wants someone to follwo her instruction when and if she chooses to give it. She is well within her rights to want this. But, you have an education and experience that naturally leads you to wanting a bit more from your career.

I think moving on is the right thing for you to do because the two of you will never be a good fit. And I also think she hasn't been terribly nice to you and probably deserved the resignation she got.

As an employer I could care less about ofsted and what they require of you. I'm also not terribly fussed about the requirements of your insurance company. I would try to be reasonable. But a flat out refusal to follow my instruction would not be welcome. This is but one reason I am staunchly opposed to ofted registration for nannies. I simply don't see that they bring any value to the situation.

Anyway, I would give my nanny step by step instructions. I try to back off and let her do her job when I am at work. That is sometime difficult for parents (and your boss clearly has not got to grip with it) but I think if you can't do that that nanny employment is not for you.

FlorenceMattell · 21/10/2013 20:25

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FlorenceMattell · 21/10/2013 20:22

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butterfliesinmytummy · 21/10/2013 20:18

My dd2 aged 5 was vomiting on Friday. She had no fever, didn't want banana, dry toast, plain rice etc. We went through the whole list of bland foods but the only thing she could face was jelly so she had some. A doctor once told me that any hydration is better than none for d&v as long as it's not acidic or fruit / dairy that will irritate the stomach. Sometimes jelly just works.....

You prob shouldn't have given the jelly as that went against her micro instructions, but I think she was unreasonable to issue such instructions when she wasn't physically able to be in the room and judge for herself what her child needed at the time.

Blondeshavemorefun · 21/10/2013 20:17

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Ihavethislittlesister · 21/10/2013 20:17

Maybe she is an emetophobe? Hence needing control over what said child ate after being sick and oddness over younger child being removed from room

A4 sheet is bit much I must say

Strix · 21/10/2013 20:06

It sounds to me like there have been a few occassions where mum felt you didn't do as she instructed. And, as a result, she is digging her heels in (yes, overreacting) here as a result. I think you were wrong to give the jelly because she specifically asked you not to. But, again, she overreacted to the situation. So, plenty of blame to go around here.

I believe there is more to this story than is typed on this thread.

If I left my child with a nanny, rang them and asked them to give paracetemol, and nanny then refused citing ofsted or insurance I would be mighty unhappy with the nanny for this response. In fact she would be at real risk of dismissal on the grounds of insubordination. My nanny (when I had one) works for me, and I expect her to act like it. Now, of course, I avoid this situation by writing into my contract that giving medicine is not only allowed, but is in fact her duty. If she can inform me first she should. But if in her view waiting to get ahold of me is not in the interest of the child she should adminster medicine and then tell me. My contract also specifies which hospital she can take the children to... and so does my childminder contract.

Now if I asked the nanny to leave the baby unattended in the street then that would be a different matter. But, not giving this child jelly, was not a lack of sensible judgement. It was a reasonable course of action. Yours was also reasonable. But you work for her, and you lost sight of that relationaship when you chose to give him jelly anyway.

So, in short, I do think you were in the wrong. But, I also think she is being unreasonable.

FlorenceMattell · 21/10/2013 20:06

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FlorenceMattell · 21/10/2013 20:04

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Blondeshavemorefun · 21/10/2013 19:37

she sounds a nightmare, a4 sheet every day you work there Hmm

to make sure life easier you should have a letter saying you can put on suncream and prescribe/give calpol etc if you feel the need - i have it written in my contract that employer gives me permission and she trusts my judgement of the situation

regards jelly, he had been very sick and if giving jelly will help rehydrate then thats good, tbh if hadnt been sick for 5hrs i probably would have given a banana and gone from there

sounds to me that she doesnt trust you, even worse if you are an ex nurse

telling an older child she is coming home soon and not arriving for 6hrs is unfait

tbh employing a nanny means you will deal with sick children and the parents dont need to come home - compared to a cm/nursery

removing younger child from room will not stop child from getting sick - more then likely a bug and would have been exposed anyway

if one day a week do you really need a ref, if she is going to be difficult anal about the situation

trish5000 · 21/10/2013 18:52

This is tough isnt it. She sounds very fussy. She will have trouble getting any nanny to last as long as you have.

But on the other hand I am left thinking that she asked you not to feed her poorly child and you did. Whereas, you could have rung her up again?

And does she relalise that you couldnt administer the parecetamol without her written consent?

Agree with Nom that it would be best to have a talk with her so that hopefully she gives you a good reference for whenever you might need it in the future.

MillyONaire · 21/10/2013 18:36

Maybe she's coming down with the same bug her ds had and is feeling a bit off colour/grumbly. Bring her a jelly around in the morning: she'll appreciate your expertise then!

Lifebythesea2323 · 21/10/2013 18:18

Thank you every one feeling a bit better about this now.

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TSSDNCOP · 21/10/2013 18:07

And the jelly incident is preposterous.

TSSDNCOP · 21/10/2013 18:05

Doesn't a reference these days simply have to constitute a letter stating "Lifebythesea worked for Mrs Micromanager from X to Y"

i.e simply to confirm dates of employment?

Type one out and have her sign it. No other written correspondence required.

Lifebythesea2323 · 21/10/2013 18:04

I don't do my own thing, children eat exactly what she askes. She leaves a list breakfast, snacks, lunch, dinner.
She lets me choose their clothes or they do.
Activities, I am only there one day a week, so follow her suggestion or park etc. I don't take them out of the village or meet any other nannies or have anyone come round. I do bring crafts to do each week for the children. I do think she feels threatened without revealing any more this is something she mentioned. She is excellent parent btw.
I just wanted a perspective on the jelly incident.

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Viviennemary · 21/10/2013 18:02

She sounds a total pain. And you sound as if you bent over backwards doing your best. I don't think I'd want to look after children with such fussy nit picking ungrateful parents. But it's up to you whether or not you continue. I don't think you've done anything wrong.

NomDeClavier · 21/10/2013 18:01

Re bad reference that's going to be tough. You can give a bad reference if you have a) had to invoke disciplinary b) had documented performance management meetings and given the employee time to improve or c) dismissed for gross misconduct or suspicion of child abuse.

If you didn't hand in your notice, she documents this and she brings up not following orders again in the future then there's a possibility it could show up. Equally if you have insubordination as grounds for gross misconduct then this could be construed as insubordination but you're not being dismissed, you're giving notice though she could claim she would have dismissed you....

Hopefully you'll have been able to explain before refs are taken up that you're leaving because you had a difference of opinion on how to treat a sick child and you feel the trust has gone.

Lifebythesea2323 · 21/10/2013 17:56

NomDeClavier

Agree with all your post. Brilliant you have hit the nail on the head.

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MoneyMug · 21/10/2013 17:53

She sounds like a massive control freak. How have you put up with that for nearly a year? An a4 instruction sheet every day?! Madness!

NomDeClavier · 21/10/2013 17:49

As far as giving medication goes you were right, but it's well worth having your boss wrote you a blanket authorisation to administer xyz medication in case of need and she will countersign later in the nanny diary or similar.

OFSTED don't really prescribe written consent (although some inspectors interpret things one way and others another) but nanny insurance frequently does.

As for the jelly it's a tough one. The child was asking for food, jelly is an acceptable food in those circs - it's not like you were giving diverging that was likely to irritate the stomach - and medically you didn't do anything wrong. In any case you probably know more than she does about it. What you did 'wrong' was not do what she wanted, but equally you had to balance the child's welfare and your knowledge of the situation with her wishes, and in this case the child's welfare won out. Unfortunately I doubt she'll see it that way.

I suggest you sit and have a proper discussion with her about it. If she feels you're systematically doing your own thing and you don't there's a communication issue you need to resolve. I suspect she also feels threatened in some way so is being a bit more pernickety than she otherwise might be. Either way this needs to be sorted and you're going to have to have a face to face conversation.

PedlarsSpanner · 21/10/2013 17:49

IIRC a Bad Reference aint allowed anymore

All they can say is Lifebythesea worked for me between these dates, xx and yy.

Lifebythesea2323 · 21/10/2013 17:49

thanks Bundaberg, yes wasn't a problem her not coming home, as she has a job she cant just leave. But I was annoyed she told child she was. She came home six hours later which was a long time for him.

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