which is better nursery or child minder for just two year old

It's also importnant to remember that OFSTED require all people looking after children to undertake training in key areas. This applies to both nurseries and childminders.

FeelingOld, I was talking about my own feelings about childminders. Yes, I know some childminders have good qualifications, some are ex-nursery teachers etc. I have across many of them on MN, not in RL though. I am sure there are more childminders who have no qualifications than those who do. This is important to me and that's why I have chosen nurseries were the majority of the staff have formal qualifications and long experience. No, I would not be happy about just a few 19-year olds in a room looking after my children and there are some bad nurseries out there. You only need to read a few threads on MN to realise.

I am sure there are lots of good childminders around. I have many friends who use childminders, but from what I see of them those minders do not provide what I am looking for when it comes to childcare. One minder looking after too many children are the most off-putting aspect for me. Again, parents are looking for different things for their children and I am sure it will always be a market for both childminders and nurseries. I think the main problem with nurseries (I don't know if the same with CMs) is that the really good ones seem far and few between and cost so much money only a few priviledged children go there and the less fortunte often have to settle for second best.

Hmmmmm. By the same token, FeelingOld I also find myself getting P'd off with a lot of the ill-informed 'nursery bashing' that goes on here. We all know that there are good and bad practitioners within childminding and nurseries and I could give you some horror stories from both, but I don't. Live and let live, eh?!

Fairymum - I find your comment 'with a childminder you are just handing them over to another mum' a bit offensive.

Yes I am a mum, because I am a mum I bring with me lots of experience and knowledge, but I have also done extensive training on child behaviour and management, child protection, creativity, fire safety, first aid, inclusion, food hygiene, oral health, risk assesment, health and safety, workshops on music and movement, learning through play and lots more.I have also done courses on the birth to 3 matters and cirriculum guidence which we follow. I am also doing the 1 year long NCMA quality first qualification.

One of my mindees goes to a nursery as well as coming to me (she is 3.5) and when I pick up from there I have noticed that most of the girls working there are very young and only the assistant supervisor has children of her own. Also most of the courses I go on are also attended by staff from nurseries/playgroups.

I am not saying that childminders are better than nurseries but you are not 'just handing your child over to another mum' you are handing them over to 'a mum who knows how hard it is to leave your child whilst you go to work and who aims to care for them as you would yourself and who has done lots of training to make sure they are given a great start in life by helping them to learn and become confident happy children'.

I think the choice of childcare is such a personal choice and depends on what suits your child and your family. We went for nursery after "inspecting" various childminders and nurseries. It isn't necessarily a choice between childminder or nursery, but you have to find that special childminder or that particular nursery which is right for YOU and your 2 year-old.

I personally feel that a good nursery with professional carers can add something extra to my children's development whereas a childminder is just handing my child over to another mum and another family environment. However, for many people this is exactly what they want, so one person's negative can be another person's positive. I would also check number of children a childminder is looking after. CM is often thought of as more 1-2-1 care, but if they have many children who vary in age and their needs are very different, your child might get more individual care in a nursery.

I think the main benefit I see with CM is that your child can continue in their care once they start school.

I think there is safety in numbers which is what you get in a nursery. I don't suppose many parents feel totally happy with childcare.

bonkerz, toddler room (2 - 3 years) ratios are 1:4. Pre-school room ratios(3 years and over) are 1:8. Two year olds should never be at 1:8 ratio. If you know of a nursery that does this then I'm sure OFSTED would be very interested to hear about it.

I am a nursery owner and am therefore also biased Parents choose either CM or nurseries for many different reasons.

Be aware also that Steve Biddulph's recent comments/opinions neatly coincided with the launch of his new book . Gawd help us nurseries if he brings out an exercise video.

OK may be a bit biased here but have been a manager of a nursery and am now a childminder.

I would say childminder every time! Reasons for this are that at the age of 2 most nurseries move the children to the toddler room, this means their staff child ratio goes from 1-3 to a whopping 1-8. Also in the toddler room are 3 year olds + and these have to follow a curriculum so i found that the 2 year olds were left to play alot instead of getting one to one attention. Alot of the 2 year olds in a toddler room find it difficult to adjust to large rooms with older children, obviously some love it!!
As a childminder i care for 2 x 2 year olds and my own DD who is 3 months. We go to toddler groups every day so the children mix with a wide group of children, we also have the flexibility to visit the library and other trips out. My mindees get regular sleeps which is often difficult in a nursery setting and i also have a 1-3 ratio which means they get all they get all the attention they need. Go with your heart, you know your child, will they need alot of attention?

we used a lovely cm for dd but swapped to nursery at the age of 2. the cm was giving up doing it but we were toying with the idea of moving her to a nursery anyway. she loved being at the cm's but as she got older, it was obvious dd needed more stimulation in an educational way. she's come on in leaps and bounds at nursery and will start school in september with the best grounding we can give her, she's had a bit of everything, time with a cm, nursery and then time with me when i went on mat leave with ds.

I agree a good CM is probably better than a good nursery and I know of people where the CM has become a family friend but I don't think my BAD experience should be ignored. If nothing else it may help you when asking your potential CM questions.

I envy people with good CM as I think the relationship can be valuable and close and I hope my experiences don't scare you too much.

TBH IMHO a good CM is better than a good nursery IYKWIM. However a bad CM can be far worse than a bad nursery I think. Simply becasue a bad CM has sole care and you really don't know what they are doing, however at a nursery it could be one bad egg.

I have had good CM, and good nurseies, and a brilliant nanny!!

I have had one bad nanny who lasted a few weeks and it was not cruelty to the kids (that was never in doubt) it was messing me about that was bad.

Drosophila soudns like she really had a bad run of luck with her choice.

my cm did give dd the odd tap on the hand, after I told her to do it ... dd was lil Ms. Octopus and had her paws in everything at any time possible.

Also I knew that cm's dh was smoking, but he always went outside to do so - house didn't smell a bit of smoke and I'm sensitive to that as reformed smoker

I know my cm never lied to me. She told me about everything in minute detai... e.g. dd fell over doing this and that and hurt her knee etc. being very apologetic about it. I told her not to worry as I knew what dd was like, espcially as her favourite playmate was 4 years older than her and she loved playing football with him! 1/2 the time dd looked like she'd been through the wars BEFORE I handed her to the cm on Monday's

Basically when going for a cm make sure that you find someone you and your lo are happy with. I gaged it by visiting and observing the other children in her care... they are the best reference I think. They all were very happy and if they fell or bumped themselves ran to her for comforting :)

And the CM would never ever beat ds. Or raise her voice to him even!! On more occasions than enough I have came home early without notice and she has been playing on the floor, or has him out in a swing...and we bought her a carseat for her car so she can cart him about with her in comfort! She's lovely.. a real angel :)

My 15month old ds is at a childminders. My 4 yr old DD is at a nursery/playgroup. They are both suited to the 2 different atmospheres. I felt that ds would suit a more one to one relationship from a carer as he is a happy wee pet who likes individual attention and likes being with one person, dd on the other hand loves lots of stimulation and can sometimes get a bit much for one person so I guess it all depends on babys needs :)

Please don't be put off by drosophilas experience, the majority of childminders are very responsible, caring professionals. Unfortunately, we all get tarred with the same brush when someone has a bad experience.

I would never take a child in my car without the appropriate car restraints, I would never lie to parents, physical punishment is never used on mindees or around mindees, if I was unable to look after mindees (and I would have to be really ill not to) I would whenever possible offer parents the choice of using one of my childminder friends (we meet regularly so that all of our mindees get to know different childminders should such circumstances arrive) and I would not let a mindee go anywhere where they would be exposed to cigarette smoke and none of the childminders in my local group would do any of the things mentioned.

I am not saying you should use a childminder but please bear in mind the majority of us are lovely.

There are pros and cons for using nurserys and for using a childminder so I would say make a list of all of the things you require and want from childcare, then visit some nurseries and some childminders and see which of them fit the bill.

Good luck.

I used both and had a bad experience with a childminder and a nursery before finding a good nursery I was happy with.

The thing I don't like about my childminders was:

1. She took DS out in car without a carseat
2. She lied to me about several small things.
3. I never really knew what her other family members did with ds.

1. I'm pretty sure she hit DS or at the very least someone was getting hit in that house (could have been her own 9yr son). DS started to hit DP on the bottom saying 'Naught boy, naughty boy. A bit of a give away.
2. Let me down.

The bad xperience with the nursery pales into insignificance to that.

I prefer a nursery cos if there is one bad egg odds are there are some good eggs. DD is going to nursery.

snail trail

me too - constantly wearing clothes with dried on me, keep having to clean sofa etc. but hey, it's all part of the fun isn't it

Edam - I would take a child with CP, but only once they were "well in themselves" iyswim

D&V are an absolute no no......I'm sure you have seen my recent thread on he subject.

But colds?...I have a constantly dripping sucession of noses at my house...and they are all green

edam :) my cm took kids even if they had e.g. chickenpox... but all parents agreed on that as the kids had to get it at some stage anyhow. Saying that, whilst at cm dd got exposed 3x to cp but never got them. Now at nursery they had an outbreak and she finally got it. She was last in her group! Good immune system eh?!

Nurseries won't take children who are even slightly off colour (unless it's just a cold) but I gather childminders are a bit more flexible - Katiemac will correct me if I'm wrong!

Personally having done nursery for ds from 7 months, there's no way I'd send another young child to a day care nursery. Just not enough individual attention or home-like atmosphere. Too much being stuck in the same room all day every day. Would choose childminder up to age 3.

Same OFSTED reports - can be seen here \link{http://www.ofsted.gov.uk/\you select C/Mers and your area}

This is a very new system and not all childminders in your area will have a report on-line (but you just ask to see it)

\link{http://www.childcarelink.gov.uk/index.asp\this will give a list of local childminders}

Good luck