Free childcare places and CM.

I think we need to 'question' the system now rather than give up

If your LA has a network then you can access the NEG which should automatically entitle you to do the 2 yo funding
The sum they pay for 3/4 year old has been in place for years... it never got increased considering inflation etc... that is why some providers are thinking of challenging it...as we now have a living wage of £8.55 in London

The 2 yo old funding is at a different rate, my LA pays £3.50 for 3/4 FE but £6.10 for 2 yo, which is the problem because when they get to age 3 the funding drops dramatically...also for 2 yo is only for 38 weeks of the year and only for 15 hours...can you see why the system ...sorry for the word... 'stinks'

if we give up it will never get sorted to our advantage....get it clarified
I certainly intend to question it

Ok so the latest info I have is that no childminders in our LA can currently access NEG. We are however able to access the 2 year old funding, we do this via the usual training etc and yet another LA audit. So far, my coordinator wants come out to do audit for commissioned, I have already had a 3 visit audit as I am due my ofsted inspection and she also wants to do the dfe early years quality improvement programme audit so that I may be able to eventually access the neg if and when they decide how much they will pay cm.

I think I'll just go get myself a different job, I don't have enough time in the day for all this, I work a 50 hour week and then train, plan, clean, god forbid I should have time for my family.

Sillymillysmummy
The Accreditation process is approved by the DfE and was also recognised by the previous govt under the Department for Children Schools and Families (DCSF) but it is under review because without c/ms the 2 yo scheme will flop

Do you not think that you could write in to the DfE and report the discrepancies that basically disadvantage c/ms in this system...we can discuss it forever but unless the LAs are told to have some king of uniformity in policy we will never get there
Another body to write to is the NCMA who has supported networks in its present form...i am about to do so

minderjinx
Agree our families are disadvantaged but if we were to give the FE at a silly cost we would become unsustainable...so many c/ms stay out...universal care it is not! and far from being a universal system..other countries Sweden, Denmark or Norway do not have it so it is time to review ours???

I wish I could say I believed that the point of the local authority network was to support childminders to achieve high standards of care - I don't think they can recognise quality care when they see it, and are obsessive about really marginal issues and about ticking boxes in relation to their own agenda. I continue to get the impression from talking with my own DO that they believe they are doing me/us a huge favour by allowing us the opportunity to jump their hoops, when I would say those of us who have persevered are in fact doing it for our parents as much or more than for any sound business reasons (though I'd concede a degree of bloodymindedness too in not wanting to let them get away with serving CMs and parents so badly!)

I am happy that OFSTED judge my care outstanding, even more so that parents agree and that the children I care for are happy and safe. I am distinctly unhappy that my local authority were not satisfied with either my experience or record or my level 3 qualification as evidence that I have the necessary skills to look after funded 3 year olds, though apparently fine to look after children whose parents paid (ironically including those of a Children's Centre Head and of another member of the Children's Services team) and in fact I am also evidently fine to care for vulnerable 2 year olds when this is useful to Social Services - and see fit to mandate additional training - all very laudable as and when needed, but only if it's also relevant and timely. They should in my view be supporting childminders to allow as many as possible to offer the funded provision and give parents more options. Rant over!!!!

In my particular case, I wouldn't even mind all of that, IF my LA could tell me whether or not I need to be accredited to access the FE funding, and indeed how I could become accredited. Instead all I get is, 'waiting for finance dept to tell us how funding is accessed' this may be in 6 months time! No good for me, they're discriminating against my setting.

Yes ...to give the FE Accreditation is what you need to achieve...we know that

What does accreditation really mean?
accredited c/ms still follow the EYFS but have to undergo a process to become accredited..the main difference they have to 'have regards to the SEN Code of Practice'...we all do that anyway!

C/ms with degrees and EYPS should not need this additional red tape to achieve a level already achieved in their degree etc...
EYPS 'lead practice', you cannot get anything higher...it is madness and a huge waste of money for them to undergo a process that teaches them nothing...and rewards them with less money...

Many networks only take c/ms with a level 3...the aim of a network is to support c/ms to achieve high quality so why block those without a level 3...more restrictions....I am learning so much from this and getting more and more cross

In my area you HAVE to be accredited to accept the FE and you HAVE to have a level 3 diploma or what ever its called these days

And also spending money from DfE that is barely accounted for......I also think that we as c/ms must bear some responsibility for what has been happening which is now, very possibly' too late to repair but I won't give up hope!!!

In the past some and I stress some c/ms have benefitted from networks and considered themselves very special by being part of a 'special club' ...as said it was not compulsory to belong

But those c/ms who wanted to belong to one and, for whatever reasons found it difficult, said nothing and just accepted the situation....this is a shame

We should have raised concerns over this totally unacceptable system but we didn't and, unfortunately, our representing organization actually promoted networks even though they were aware of the difficulties...now they too are reviewing the system....why?

well the 2 year old funding requires c/ms to be part of this or the scheme will not succeed and that is why some LAs are now opening networks to all c/ms and NCMA is reviewing them

I thought this matter was really of no great concern to c/ms...but I think I was wrong and we need it to be rectified or at least I think so.

I am part of a network, I'm not really sure that means anything to our LA other than meeting up once a week. This is the reply I had from our childminding coordinator today regarding the nursery education grant in our LA.

I have been advised that in relation to the 3 and 4 year old offer the
procedures for childminders applying to deliver the offer still need to
be signed off and the finance department are still drawing together the
information about the funding as there is a new formula they have to
use. I have informed them of your enquiry and they will keep me informed
as to how they are progressing. They were hopeful that it would be
complete by Jan but are saying it may be Easter.

I can (if I meet the LA training requirements and my practice remains 'of good quality' ) become a commissioned childminder and be funded for the 2 yo places, which requires an annual inspection by LA.

I think these people must be justifying their own jobs as they are certainly making work for themselves.

Mr Anchovy
I know many c/ms in LAs without a network
I believe that the cost of running one has made LAs think twice, unfortunately I do not know which LAs they are but that has been the system for a while and both the DfE and previous DCSF are aware of the discrepancy, in fact the DCSF started questioning the present model in 2009 in one of their publications they stated the system was not effective....unfortunately no one has done anything about it since then...except me as I go on and on about it!!!

Some LAs have an all embracing network, some have one for a limited number of c/ms and other none at all...but I have not heard of c/ms being funded without being so called 'accredited'

Networks were originally set up under the NCMA umbrella but over the years LAs have devised their own system and many are breaking away from the Children Come First (CCF) model

At present NCMA is reviewing the network model and Daycare Trust are doing a research around this topic linked to the 2 year old funding

I am appalled at what Rosiegirl has to do ...basically this is double the paperwork and feels like you are being inspected twice....this is the kind of red tape DfE are keen to see done away with...I wish you would write in and tell them!!!
On the other hand Fudgesmummy hardly gets any support...I think I have made my case quite strong....I will keep on and on and on!!!

I'm pretty sure you do need yo be accredited. Mine is through the LA network, but I think I have heard of NCMA accredited minders too.

you do NOT have to belong to a network or be accredited as you often say there is 152 LA's each is different on requirements.

Hmm, any LA that doesn't provide a network or provides EY funding to CMs that are not accredited for that purpose is not complying with the regulations. Can you name and shame, or are you worried your funding might dry up?

I have been accredited for 3.5 years and have several children that claim some of their free entitlement from me. There is so many minders and nurseries in my area that it is imposable to be picky and accept that I will get less an hour for some of the children. My only contact with the network coordinator is a yearly review-I deal with all the paperwork directly with the free entitlement department. I would never not look after FE children

My local authority have been pretty good, although I've just had a form through which I need to fill in, where I have to show where the child was and where they are now. Why are you complaining? I hear you say. Well I have to do a detailed report on each of the 7 areas of learning and development, what the child was doing in each of them when I started funding, what I have done to "educate them" over the period I have received funding, where they are now and what I plan to do in the next term. I understand why I am doing it, but its yet more paperwork, for the sake of paperwork, I asked if she just wanted to come and look at my Learning Journey's, but no, it has to be in their format, I also asked if nurseries and pre-schools have to do this for each child, and was told no, but they are inspected in other ways! I only claim 18 hours per week and its really not worth it.

They obviously feel we don't have enough to do.

Yes I know that and I don't want to belong to one...and also true no one will do just 3 hours...and the rest too (I did say I belonged to a network a long time ago, became accredited and then left due to too many Terms and Conditions)

My argument is against the discrepancy of the support offered to those who belong and those who do not...which has created a two tier system
LAs receive money from govt to support 'all c/ms' not just the few...also why waste money on me who can get on very well independently when many c/ms are more in need of help????

and why should my parents not get the Free Entitlemnet when I fulfill all the criteria??? and why should I lose 50% of fees simply to belong?
would like to hear your views on that please

Italiana, you do NOT have to belong to a network or be accredited as you often say there is 152 LA's each is different on requirements.

It is unlikely a cm will offer just three hours a day as a standalone service, as it is not easy to fill the remainder of the day with another child.

I offer it as a goodwill to children who have been in my care since babies. I offer 15 hours over three days too, the remaining 5 hours a day aren't cheap.

LAs have their own criteria for supporting c/m in networks but I hear clearly this is additional 'red tape'...it does put many c/ms off from joining
I see your point about SEF and policies...visits I am aware of, mine does 3 + 1 unannounced.....also 3 meetings a year, tailored training and yearly appraisal...non network c/ms get nothing and yet some have EYPS and degrees and outstanding grades....not fair really....so on we campaign for equality?

My local authority insists on visiting CMs, demanding copies of policies and procedures, documentation, risk assessments (which even OFSTED do not now require to be written), even dictating that we must complete and share the supposedly optional SEF. They mandate their own training courses and programmes, all on top of OFSTED requirements, and if we don't meet their own arbitrary quality criteria, we are not allowed to be registered for funded places. I'm convinced it would be easier to set up a nursery around here than to operate as a childminder!

Minderjinx
Can you clarify what you mean by the LA leaving it to Ofsted to inspecting and rating c/ms?
LAs' role is to support not inspect...they are not the regulatory body but support c/ms to achieve better grades

As Akasa says many c/ms will not be interested in losing money and joining networks which can be very beaurocratic and prescriptive...support needs to be balanced with being allowed to get on independently and reflect on how to improve practice not spoon feeding!

Thank you for sharing your experience...I will certainly make sure the DfE knows how ineffective they are at achieving central govt policy when LAs do as they please...keep sharing

No, you specifically cannot ask them to top up the hourly fees, but you can charge for additional services (collection, food, cost of outings, etc).

You are not allowed to top up

I have little interest in offering this service as the funding from the Local Authority is below my current rates. Incidentally, does anyone know if you can ask a parent to "top up" the shortfall between the LA funded anount and what you would normally charge - that might encourage a few more people to become accredited and offer the funded places.

My LA also pay less than the local going rate and require a lot of jumping through hoops (with a lot of moving goalposts too!) for the so-called privilege of offering funded places. I think it keeps a number of council employees in work - though I'm unclear why they can't leave inspecting and rating childminders to OFSTED for as long as OFSTED can still be bothered to do so. It's worth remembering that they only fund 38 weeks of the year and that they say you cannot oblige parents to use/pay for the other weeks of the year (though in practice my families do). I only bothered to register because it helps out my parents financially if they want the option to keep their children in home=based care at three without feeling they are missing out on a benefit other parentss can access - not all children need or are ready for pre-school at that point.

Thank you ...you have proved my point
Don't you feel we should now start making huge waves about this...so far no one has heard our voices?

My LA pay less than my hourly rate, but I have still jumped through their 5000 hoops to offer free spaces. OP ... as you can see ... it is up to each CM and their LA, so worth having a look/ask around.