Think this is going to end badly

Is she expecting you to sign this over the weekend and give it back more or les immediately? Has she said as much?

I'm just wondering if it's worth ringing round a few employment lawyers to see if any of them do a free half hour and you could get some concrete advice before making a decision.

Re the INSET day - did you have notice of that? I must admit that in your situation I would expect to be providing childcare on those days unless I'd been told otherwise.

The rest of it sounds totally unreasonable and I think if necessary I would just go with the line that I needed a more structured/straightforward set up from both a financial and personal POV.

I agree MrA, the outcome the nanny needs here is a good reference and time to find another job.
Why couldn't the nanny say they won't agree to change to contract and let their employer give notice ti terminate the contract. Woukd that work? Better than nanny resigning.

Yes I agree and you definitely know more about Working Time reguatlions than me.

But I don't think the employee would even have to HINT at a tribunal. It's already in the employers' mind. All she has to do is smile sweetly, ask for more time, and the employer will already be thinking about the next step.

This is going to be a slightly dog eat dog situation with both dogs smiling and wagging and both working out how they can each get the best out of the situation.

Unless the nanny really doesn't want the hassle, which would be quite natural, and she's got the money to spare and can just walk. I wouldn't do it but I can see how that's appealing.

@Brycie

Oops yes, DirectGov.

I see what you mean about presenting a balance of information, but I don't agree that the employee is a very strong position here, and I do think that the best that is going to come out of it is a good reference and jeapordising that by threatening/hinting at a Tribunal would be a mistake.

"Unfair dismissal is a fair cop because the employer has offered her continued employment so any complaints about performance would be seen to be made up and false."

But the reason the employer would give for dismissal wouldn't be performance, it would be that the employee is unwilling to meet the changed needs of the employer. That doesn't mean that the dismissal would definately not be unfair (indeed if the Working Time Regulations are being breached it may automatically be unfair), but it is certainly not a "fair cop" against the employer.

I took it from the direct gov website, is that the same thing?!

Anyway, the legalities are partly on the nanny's side, that's what's important. At the moment she's faced with a fait accompli, and she thinks all the power is on the employer's side. She needs to know it's not like that.

She needs to know that she doesn't have to sign it, and that if she's fired, she can bring an unfair dismissal claim. It doesn't matter what the result will be, in a way - it's the fact that it's unfair dismissal, legal costs, compensation outcome uncertain etc - does the employer want to go through with that? No, probably not. It will give her pause, give the nanny time to negotiate, find a new job, not lose her home, whatever.

Does the nanny want to go through that? probably not, but that's not the point. She could, and that gives her a bit of power which she's in dire need of right now. Not signing, and not resigning, puts the ball back in the employers' court and a good thing too. That means she'll have to decide - do I want to sack her, risk unfair dismissal, struggle to find new help etc or do I negotiate the terms of the contract?

All this time the nanny can be looking for a new job and still has a roof over her head. Unfair dismissal is a fair cop because the employer has offered her continued employment so any complaints about performance would be seen to be made up and false.

Nanny photos I think you need to start making notes, photocopy the contract and start thinking about what you want if the terms of the contract were open to renegotiation. Or a new job.

"Either you or your employer might want to change your employment contract. However, neither you or your employer can change your employment contract without each other's agreement." (ex. Business Link)

That's all very well Brycie, but if you don't agree to a change the employer can terminate the existing contract by giving notice. Even if this was judged to be unfair dismissal (and in this case there may be an argument of unfairness in relation to the National Minimum Wage and Working Time Regulations) the compensation would be minimal, and taking a previous employer to an Employment Tribunal never looks good on a CV :(

Thanks Lougle, you are absolutely right regarding unfair dismissal. The qualifying period for redundancy pay is 2 years regardless of when employment commenced however.

Just to correct that, MrAnchovy - although the minimum period of employment is 2 years as of April 2012, if the contract commenced before April 2012, the minimum period remains unchanged at 1 year so if all other conditions are satisfied, the OP would still have a claim.

In other words, don't sign, don't resign, don't make yourself homeless. Drag it out, negotiate, stay on good terms, decide what you want. Most importantly - a roof over your head, and a reference. Remember being under her feet gives you the power of requiring a good reference to get rid of you.

"Either you or your employer might want to change your employment contract. However, neither you or your employer can change your employment contract without each other's agreement."

The two year rule doesn't apply to the oringinal poster as she began work for this person before April this year. So unfair dismissal would apply. Also see above.

As you have been employed less than 2 years it doesn't make any difference whether it is a new job or an amendment - you have no rights to redundancy pay or unfair dismissal claim anyway*

You need a proper job with a decent employer: the best you can get out of this situation is a good reference.

• I see from your other thread that you were previously employed by this employer: depending on the wording of your current contract this may actually give you more than 2 years service but the amounts you could claim for redundancy/unfair dismissal are so small that it would almost certainly not be worth a legal dispute - a good reference would be worth much more.

I wouldn't jump, you'll regret it. Why make it easy for her and hard on yourself. Why look for a job and a flat at the same time when you could just be looking for a job.

Good luck.Maybe hold fire on the resignation until you find something new. That way you can honestly tell her you are moving on, seeking new challenges for your own professional development.
Then you should get the reference you will need. It is always best to part on good terms.

It may be that it all comes down to a unofficial deal if it goes on long enough - ie she gives a good reference and "gets rid" without any legal costs (to try to find someone who'll sign that contract!) while you get the time and space to find a new job. This feels like a game of chicken. I don't think you should blink first.

Don't sign up to anything. Say you need more time to think about it. She can't pay you less because you are still under the old contract. If she does pay you less you can either take legal advice, or simply undertake the hours she wants without signing the contract. That means you have somewhere to live and a lot of time free to look for a new live-in job. Do NOT voluntarily walk away - don't underestimate losing your home.

The trouble with still working to the old contract is that the op might not get paid for the hours she has worked. If the employer is as mean as she sounds there is the real risk that she won't play fair.
My advice would be to get out now while things are still friendly.
Like you said, op, things are not going to end well.

Not a good situation. She's not playing fair. Walk away would be my advice.

She is going to find herself on really difficult ground when it comes to sacking you. I don't think she will want to risk an unfair dismissal claim, however much reassurance she's had.

If you want to stay in the job, and if the relationship can survive this, think about what YOU want and can live with - ie make demands yourself as part of a new contract. To me, it sounds impossible to work round her demands. But maybe not to you.

I would say you need extra time to think about it and just drag it out until you find a nice new job. I would ask for a reference up front and say you might have to look around for a proper full time job. Be nice as pie about it.

She's really being excessively unreasonable, it might be because she is up against it financially or it might be because she's just mean. But I would very tempted to drag it out until SHE has the difficult choice - ie sack you and chuck you out, which she will find really hard. Don't do it to yourself. Wait for HER to do it.

THe very fact there's disagreement means I think it's a grey area of constructive dismissal.

I would doubt that the new contract terms would be held to be reasonable and fair. Whether it is a new contract or a varaition to the old one depends I suppose on what terms you have already agreed, but I would certainly refer it all to NCMA for formal written legal advice. I think in your position I would not sign the new contract and would let your employer know that you propose to continue to work to your existing contract in the meantime while seeking legal advice yourself. Good luck.

I'm sure the bit about doing additional hours for no pay is illegal. Have you asked for advice on that part of the contract? I would get out, regardless. She's clearly not reasonable.

Walk away.
I doubt she will find anyone new to sign that contract either.
She has got a bloody cheek!