Unregistered childminders

@Themi
Surely if this were happening you would have called the police on day 1?

THEMI
Start a new thread, it's not relevant here

ZOMBIE THREAD

I live in an area that is suffering with a lack of business recently. There's nothing more annoying than seeing an unregistered childminder responding to Facebook posts about people looking for childcare. Childminders register at huge costs to themselves, pay out for insurance, first aid and registration as well as the regular courses to keep up to date. We are inspected the same as pre schools and nurseries and have to jump through so many hoops. We have to keep Ofsted happy and we are really vulnerable in that if anyone makes a malicious complaint (the majority are malicious and unfounded) it could end our business. Then there's the tax element, we have to do our taxes and pay our tax bills. I find it hard to believe an unregistered person would declare earnings as they can't admit where the money is coming from!

If Ofsted find out about an unregistered minder they are more likely to help them through the registration process. Maybe they should be helping the thousands of childminders who are leaving the profession because of underfunding, lack of support and stress caused by Ofsted themselves.

Just to be clear I don't have a problem with people who care for over 8s not being required to be registered. They are not as vulnerable as babies and toddlers who can report back to their parents.

Life isn't fair that is the modern myth that breeds envy and discontent and allthough I do not approve of unregistered childminder's I accept that there are certain circumstances where it is legal not to be registered and if ofstead concentrated more on the actual care provided and less on ticking boxes we might not have so many excellent CM's leaving the picture

sunshinenanny there are a lot of childminders being told they need to do more paperwork and jump through more hoops than are necessary. Maybe they are the ones leaving.

I don't have to pay out ridiculous amounts in registration and insurance but I would still feel it was unfair if many others didn;t have to.

I Know a few wonderful ex cm's who have given up working just because the registration is so full of irrellevent red tape and the thing that seems to be upsetting some of the poster's is that they have to jump through hoops and spend out to be registered when others don't.

I even know of a grandmother who was told in a rather nasty tone that she should be registered to care for her own grandchildren!

Be careful before reporting anyone that you know the full story.

Sorry mexxo. I was talking more about under 8s, but some of it does apply to over 8s too.

Childminders are required to be registered to care for small children for a good reason, just like doctors, gas fitters, nurseries, etc.

Ofsted help to ensure that care is provided on safe premises, away from dangerous animals, convicted child abusers and by suitable people who understand children's needs, are physically and mentally fit to do so and manage their behaviour appropriately to name but a few things.

It is everybody's business if someone is working without a required registration because there are plenty of people out there who will cut corners and put others at risk for the sake of earning more money.

I have to wonder what a person who works so hard to avoid Ofsted registration is trying to hide. It isn't such an awful or expensive process that it is reasonable to risk prosecution in order to avoid it.

And also, I understand it's annoying to be undercut by someone not doing it by the book, but we live in a free market economy and if the competitor is not acting unlawfully, you just have to accept that there will always be some parents prepared to go cheap, just as there will be others who want the very best for their precious children.

I speak as someone who used an OFSTEf registered, expensive but wonderful CM for years. The peace of mind was worth it to me.

HSMM I think you have missed my point, which is that it is NOT "illegal" to CM for over-8s without registering. Nor is it illegal to do so without insurance. Inadvisable, sure, but that is a matter for the discretion of the parents involved. In the same way, it is not "illegal" for me to let my kids' friends play on our trampoline without insurance. They might be terribly injured if there was an accident, and their parents might sue me, in which case if I didn't have insurance I would lose my house and other assets to satisfy a judgment against me. But it is up to me whether or not to get insurance to cover that risk, and up to the parents whether or not they want their kids to come round and play, and quite frankly, none of anyone else's business.

Mexxo - I get what your saying about not knowing their personal tax arrangements, but I suspect that someone working illegally may not want to declare their earnings from that work?

I am concerned about unregistered minders, but you are right, I am also definitely resentful about the time, effort and money I put into my business when someone else doesn't bother.

Should have said "earning" not "warning".

thebody I accept the point about insurance, but how would you know about the personal tax arrangements of third parties? Why do you assume that everyone warning cash in hand does not declare it? You may in some cases be correct but you simply have no way of knowing that in any particular case.

The fact is that you don't need to register to childmind over-8s. It's up to the parents whether or not they feel happy without insurance etc.

All this objection on the basis of unsubstantiated assumption smells like sour grapes. And nothing wrong with that, it's human nature. But dressing resentment up as "concern" is a bit small-minded IMO.

Mexxo, I agree with you as a principal of not 'reporting people' but as an ex CM we have to jump through many expensive and administrative hoops to become registered and regulated. It really pissed me off to see unregistered cms with lots of kids doing the school run AND NOT PAYING TAX while I was slogging away doing it by the book.

The law is the law, if we all start breaking parts of it we don't like then where does that leave societies most vulnerable citizens, our children.

An unregistered cm has no insurance personal or for car use.

Thank god when my dd was badly injured in a crash we can claim compensation from the coach insurers, mindees with unregistered cms wouldn't have that choice.

Parents need to remember this.

If the kids are over age 8, she doesn't have to be registered I think. I know someone who looks after some kids from our school after school for 2 hours - they're all over 8 and she is not registered (she did look into whether she would have to).

Why would you want to report this person? What's it to you? Sounds a bit vindictive to me.

Vibe, if the cm works full time with day children and after schooled and also has an evening job then she is either a freakin lunatic or on drugs.. Or both.

I worked full time as a cm for 4 years and by 6 o'clock I was absolutely bloody knackered....

Well it's not a risk I would take either, however the children are really well cared for and they absolutely love her to bits, she far excells any of the registered childminders I know locally, with energy and ideas for fun things to do with the children, so I have always felt that although what she is doing is wrong in the eyes of the law, the most important people, ie the mindees and their parents are happy so I don't feel it's anyone elses concern.

She is surprisingly well received amongst the local childminding group but I think that is because work is plentiful here at the moment with all the local minders being full , most with waiting lists. It may be a different story when there are less children to go around.

VibeLover that is very frustrating for legitimate childminders in the area who have to pay out for insurance, training courses, registration fees, etc!

This lady may live to regret her actions. Ofsted or the Inland Revenue may end up with some sort of proof or she may find herself being personally liable for something which happens to a child in her care.

It's not a risk I would care to take.

Just wanted to add to this that Ofsted have to prove that the person is actually receiving payment in order to be able to do anything about unregistered minding.

If both the childminder and the parents deny money is changing hands then it isn't an Ofsted issue.

I personally know someone who works full time as a childminder who isn't registered and has been reported 3 times in two years. On two occasions an Ofsted representive has been to see her and was unable to take any action as dispite sitting outside her house to question parents as they collected their children, all parties denied any money/vouchers/gifts changing hands.

So although it seems very unlikely that anyone would look after 3 small children every weekday plus 9 after schoolies on most days, if it can't be proven otherwise there is nothing that can be done.

The Childminder has another telephone type job in the evenings so is able to keep DWP off her case by claiming that is her only job.

Oh great apot! just because someone isn't registered as a childminder doesn't mean they are automatically comitting benifit fraud

AFAIK Ofsted generally prefer to cooperate with the unregistered minder and support them through the registration process. They want people to be registered rather than stop minding.

If they carried on without registering they would be open to prosecution.

Thank you for the updates - might be worth pointing this out to people giving the Childminder Regulation Courses as I was told last September that this was still the case. (Not that it never had been!)

You are wrong ZuleikaD.

Reciprocal childcare between friends was never intended to be regulated and following the case to which you refer the Minister of State for Education wrote to Ofsted doing them like a kipper as you put it.

The situation was further amended in the Childcare (Exemptions from Registration) (Amendment) Order 2010so that between friends the ONLY kind of reward that counts is money (or 'moneys worth' e.g. vouchers you can spend in a shop).