Potential Spanish nanny - some questions!

Hi Rubirosa - my point around moving on quickly was mostly in regard to duties. The OP said that she has 3 school age children so its possible that she would like a reasonable level of household duties carried out in addition to the basic childcare provision. If the nanny can move onto an equivalent salary for less work or more ££ , then its possible that she will take the opportunity if it's presented to her. Most people will stay put if they feel valued, it's not always about cash. In any job people get hacked off if they feel taken advantage of, something the OP is very keen to prevent. Even paying a top rate salary, it's quite easy to create resentment if you are constantly 30 mins late for example. Equally, if you've been late home occasionally, you don't expect your nanny to give you a bill at the end of the month for every 15 mins accrued. It's just about boundaries that's all. I don't know if the salary is competitive locally, it sounds as though it is in which case the OP shouldn't have any worries that her nanny will disappear at the first opportunity.

lacroix I doubt she would be able to move on quickly to a higher paid position - I have seen ads for experienced, qualified, Ofsted-registered nannies for £9-£10 gross recently, and there are plenty of nannies looking for work.

Glad you're happy Pirate. I hope it all works out.

I would agree that the hourly rate seems fair for someone with no qualifications or experience. However, with three children to look after she potentially could move on quite quickly to another family on a higher hourly rate. You should try to remove as much ambiguity as possible in terms of your mutual expectations of the job so that you don't end up with gripes on both sides. Paying close to the bottom of the market will backfire very quickly if she feels that she is being taken advantage of. I'm sure you would agree that as a SAHM, looking after 3 kids and a home is damn hard work.

The holidays (20 days, paid BH's and extra time off at Christmas) should be a nice incentive but I would seriously consider writing a fairly detailed job description so that you both understand what is expected for the £8ph. You won't want to come home to a bombsite every evening and three kids waiting on dinner, but equally £8 is not going to cover everything you currently do at home as a SAHM. Aside from the nanny, you may need to factor in the cost of a cleaner or discuss a couple of mornings a week to clean the house and do the ironing if she is interested in the extra work.

In particular I would also recommend that you discuss what your arrangements are for extra working hours. As a trainee, your work life balance may be tricky occasionally and you will need to know that she won't be standing at the door tapping her watch if you get stuck at work on short notice.

I would suggest that you discuss Peppin's points with your husband and work out in advance what you will do to incentivise her to stay (assuming it all works out) and what the review point on her salary/benefits & duties will be and that she knows when that date will be.

Finally, regardless of the fact that she won't be living with you and everything I have said above, you need to recognise that she will become part of the family - attend birthday parties, receive gifts and will have an opinion. In that way it's really useful to set out your expectations in writing as it is really difficult to have conversations about poor performance with someone who works in your home and looks after your kids.

I'm about 20mins from Bristol and I think £8 an hour is a perfectly acceptable wage for an inexperienced/unqualified nanny. Nannies may have been earning £10nett an hour a few years back but there are very, very few of those jobs available now. I'm qualified and have 20yrs experience as a nanny and I'd be asking £9 gross an hour but I'd want to bring my 20mth old DD with me. If I put her into nursery I'd be asking for a bit more.

If she 'fits' your family and you are both happy then that's the important thing. Mutual respect counts for a lot.

I don't get the whole 'joint family income' argument sometimes. My DP's wages cover the bills with very little to spare. If my salary doesn't cover two lots of childcare then there's no point in me working. Depressing but true!

Also just wanted to add: why do you consider it "your" salary that will pay the nanny? Why do you not consider "our joint family income will be X and we will pay the nanny out of that"?

I have a friend from law school who had a baby during her TC. When she went back from mat. leave her salary as a 2nd year trainee was £31k and all-in the cost of the nanny was £34k (in London, live-out). My friend wanted to qualify and work; her husband was supportive. The fact that her earnings were not enough to cover the nanny was irrelevant. They looked at it as: together we earn £200k, so the nanny is easily affordable.

I think it is so unfair that so many people take the view that if one partner's salary doesn't match or beat the cost of childcare then that partner should give up work ad stay at home. The years that children need childcare constitute a relatively short portion of a career these days, so why not take the long view that what you are losing financially in the short term will be more than made up for in the long term gain of having a career once the DCs have grown up?

I suppose this argument could struggle a bit where the higher earner is earning absolutely ££££££ and the other one would prefer to be at home than to work, but that is a different argument really.

No advice re the nanny but just wanted to wish you the very best of luck with your training contract. I know how daunting it can be going back into the workplace as a "mature" trainee solicitor, having done so myself not do long ago. In my case I was a single mum and the DCs were only 2 and 4 so I had to move back to near my own parents to find reliable childcare at an affordable cost. I was really anxious about the training contract - what the hours would be, whether the children would suffer, etc. - but it was fine (though hard work). Better than that, now the DCs are older I have got a job at a fantastic firm and feel I have a real opportunity ahead of me (I am 2 PQE now). In my experience so far - both at the regional firm I trained at and at the City firm I now work at - people are quite understanding about the occasional having to leave a bit early or come in a bit later (as long as it is only occasional) because of something child-related, as long as you do your job well and hit your hours most of the time. Best of luck with it, I'm sure you will relish it once you have found the right childcare.

the salary seems fair and more then what she earns now and def over nmw so no probs there

def go on gut instinct rather then cheapness

regards holiday, its 28days pro rota so if 5 days then 28 days, which is generally 20 days as in 4 weeks and all bank hols, but doesnt have to be, as long as 28 pro rota iyswim

dont offer now but maybe put in contract that if you take more holiday then your 2 weeks then the nanny will have the time off and paid - thus covering your back

and yes that attractive, my last few nanny jobs ive had 11/12weeks off paid

I am in Bristol too and don't know any nannies earning £10 net an hour! £10 gross maybe if qualified/experienced - though many experienced nannies are on £8 gross.

I think it seems perfectly reasonable. You can pop a salary review I'm her contract after 6 months and then discuss again then. Legally you must give her 28 days holiday (including bank holidays).

Wow I wasn't aware that £8 gross was considered to be a fair nanny wage - I thought £8 net was considered rock bottom! But we are in London, where are you OP? The only thing that I would consider is that if she really isn't earning much she will have little incentive to stay with you - for us, continuity was important and so we pay more (currently £9.50 net which I still feel is a bit low). Our nanny is also Spanish. It does take all of my earnings but that would also be the case if I was a SAHM and I look on it as an investment for the future. Also, for 3 kids surely you couldn't find anything cheaper, you would be paying less than £3/hour per child. For me, I needed to feel that I was paying her a fair wage for what is tough work, with much more responsibility than MacD or bar work (which our nanny was doing before).

I think this is a fair arrangement and if you are both happy, why not? But if her primary purpose is to learn English, is she going to have time during the day to go to college? Does she already live near you or is she going to have massive travel costs?

Personally I would go for it, providing you get good references. Your children are not babies any more, so you need someone nice and responsible. For me childcare qualifications would no longer be essential.

£8 gross is more than I have got in some previous nanny jobs - and I was qualified and had childcare experience but not much full-day nannying experience. So I feel it's fine to offer that. I'm not in London but am 25miles away.

It is £15 per month iirc. The reason it is so good is that you pay per month, rather than a yearly rate as per nanny tax. You may have to pay a certain amount for her to do the setting up stuff (registering as an employer etc) - I had already done some of that when I started using her, but I did call her in an absolute flap, a few days before my annual tax something or other was supposed to be in and she just sorted everything out. I payed her a one off amount for that - worth every penny, not least because i avoided the fine!

£8 an hour is more than fair for someone who has no childcare qualifications or nanny experience - she is very lucky to find a nanny job, most people in her position would probably get mother's help (£6-£8 an hour), unqualified nursery assistant (£6.10 max depending on her age) or au pair (less than min.wage) jobs.

I think you'll find a nanny does get a lot more working for the likes of Nicola Horlick actually, since they would be working far longer hours and probably much harder!

OP doesn't need to pay top whack nanny wages to someone who has no qualifications or experience as a nanny. They can come to a mutually fair agreement to the both of them.

I think you'll find a nanny does get a lot more working for the likes of Nicola Horlick actually, since they would be working far longer hours and probably much harder!

OP doesn't need to pay top whack nanny wages to someone who has no qualifications or experience as a nanny. They can come to a mutually fair agreement to the both of them.

Well, I did just what you are considering. i employed a foreign nanny, who I have paid less than a lot of the experienced nannies in the area charge. I can 100%, hand on heart say that I employed her because she was soooo lovely when she came to interview (and has been ever since) and not because she was cheaper. I will not be working from October, and she is moving back home, but if she was staying, I would definitely have given her a pay rise, despite the fact that some months she costs (she doesn't earn, she costs) me more than I earn (once employers NI contributions are paid). She has been absolutely fabulous.

I have sometimes felt a bit mean for paying her less than the going rate for experienced nannies, but this is because she has been so good. As I say - would definitely have raised her pay after her first six months if she was planning to stay.

I initially spoke to Nanny agencies and they suggested an hourly rate for someone who had childcare experience, but who had not nannied before (our nanny mainly had experience through looking after nieces and nephews and a bit of teaching) and so that is the figure I offered. I agree that her current pay etc are irrelevant (although it might make you feel a bit better) but if she has not nannied before, I don't really see the problem in offering her a figure on the lower end of the local scale.

I think it is so important to go on your gut feeling. This is someone who is going to be in your home, who will be so important to your children etc. If you liked her, why not offer the £8 and see how it goes. You may find you appreciate her so much that you feel compelled to raise her pay anyway, despite the expense!

Not sure about the non UK bit. Our nanny came with her work visa and NI number so that was easy. An amazing service called Zest Payroll solutions has sorted all the pay and tax stuff for me (recommended on here) so maybe you could contact them? The lady is AMAZING!

Do make sure you are factoring in your NI contributions to your calculations AND maybe consider sending her on a pediatric first aid course. We had to do something about making sure housing insurance covered someone working in the house. Also you need to pay statutory sick pay/ maternity pay/ holiday pay and write a proper contract, but I assume as a trainee solicitor and qualified solicitor you would be able to cope with that!

That was a bit long.