Nanny to go or not to go?

OP - if you aren't happy with the nanny and don't think you will be, you should put her on notice and find someone else. I know it's daunting, but you will find someone. If you are within the first year of her contract, you can do this without a reason.

Did you get a nanny with lots of experience with more than 1 child/twins (I assume triplets are a rarity)? You might find that next time you need to hire someone with more experience who will know what is expected from the job.

If you do plan to keep the nanny and even for a subsequent nanny, you need to think about what the priorities are in terms of day to day job spec (just like you'd review time management at work). Would you prefer clean floors and surfaces but toys out? Is cooking more important than ironing? Maybe you could put together a schedule based on the triplets' routine and how you normally get things done around this during the days when you are home. A nanny handbook and a detailed job spec are also very useful for potential nannies to understand exactly what is expected to avoid misunderstandings. What could also be useful is to hire either a mother's help or cleaner for an hour or so each day to make things spick and span before you get home. I am sure you'd value this when you're on mat leave again.

As someone else asked, how many applicants did you see? It's important to see a good range. Did you advertise yourself or did you use e.g. Gumtree or both? I'd highly recommend advertising yourself and screening candidates yourself (you should mostly be able to do this by reading CVs or emails and by a quick telephone call to e.g. see if foreign applicants have good English and only take applicants currently based in the UK who you can meet face to face so they can see your home and get an idea of what is expected). I know a lot of people who haven't had any better applicants via agencies than they did by doing it themselves. It's a lot of money to pay someone to screen candidates which could be better spent e.g. offering a larger salary.

I have looked after numerous set of twins (with older siblings) and a few sets of triplets. I think what you are asking is completely normal and if she is as useless as you say you need to bite the bullet and get rid of her!

Although I do stick up for the nanny on one point: clothes. I do NOT dress up or where any good clothes for work. They get completely ruined! I don't want to be constantly thinking "I can't get down and play with you I will dirty my clothes" I just get down! I am constantly getting poo/wee, snot, sneezed on food smeared on me it's part of the job.

I had a terrible nanny job involving twins, a toddler and a very demanding set of parents. However, the main problem there was that the duties required of me before I arrived seemed to treble overnight. It was my first nanny job - talk about being thrown in at the deep end! The parents had had three nannies prior to me getting there and the babies were only six months old. I was told the hours would be 8 - 6 and would involve childcare (including cleaning up after the children/doing their laundry etc.) but when I got there I was made to cook a lot of the meals for the parents, do their washing and clean other rooms in the house. I was also working from 6am until 9pm. My issue was that none of that had been in a contract.

I don't think you're asking too much OP but I do get the feeling that you've just spent the last while getting more and more frustrated with everything this nanny is doing incorrectly. Perhaps in the future you'll need to be a lot more careful when selecting a nanny.

Oh and regarding the clothing issue - when I was at home with the babies I was always covered in some sort of puke, banana, milk or yoghurt so my clothes never looked great, I don't think it's fair to expect that she dresses immaculately but I guess if someone can't take at least a little pride in themselves, they're not going to take great care of your house either.

Who is your payroll agency? Don't they give free legal advice on this stuff?

Fwiw, my gut feel is that you are being reasonable in your requirements. Except possibly the ironing - imo, if you wash and dry cunningly you can get away with very few creases and need very little ironing, and I'd rather a nanny spent time with the kids than the iron. But cooking meals and making sure the kids have clean clothes and a reasonably tidy room (bearing in mind they are still pretty small so they aren't mess-generating engines like preschoolers are, the mess is more likely made by her than them) and maintaining basic levels of hygiene in the house - that's bare necessities. But if you want to be sure, give her a week's holiday and do it yourself. If you can do it to your standard easily enough, then it's reasonable.

We had a similar problem with a Mother's Help, went through disciplinary and actually she improved hugely and turned out to be a real asset. So the fact you've been through the process with this one and no real change to me says her heart isn't in the game and hasn't been from day one and she's only with you to mark time and draw a salary till her own baby is born. How long has she got to go now, if she was pg on arrival and is at the arse-end of disciplinary proceedings now? Bear in mind that if you dismiss her, you will have to pay her notice period anyway, unless you can prove gross misconduct, which you can't. So if she's on 1m notice, if you dismiss her today she'll be with you (or you'll be paying for her) for a month from now.

You are absolutely within your rights not to take her back with a baby - it changes the nature of the job she does for you and very very few nannies will have a baby of their own and leave them with a minder to return to work after their mat leave. So you are probably shot of her once she starts her mat leave. If you're worried about the risks around dismissing her, then maybe you can do a deal where you fail to dismiss her, but she starts her mat leave as early as possible.

PS. Hello Booh!

if shes not doing the job that is outlined in her contract then ofcourse you can dismiss her!

op didnt come here for parenting tips, she asked for advice on nannys.

We have three little ones. I always say 'no ironing'. I don't buy anything that needs ironing. I'd always rather that our nanny pays attention to the children, rather than gets bogged down in things like ironing. And I like our nannies to take breaks while the kids are sleeping as it's totally exhausting paying attention to that many people during the working day. We have a cleaner to ensure that things stay reasonable and we don't ask our nannies to clean bedrooms or bathrooms. Just tidying/mopping up spills.

We do always ask our nannies to keep the kitchen pretty clean as they go. We use washable flannels (£2 for 10 from IKEA) for wiping up after meals and they're pretty robust, so it's child-table-highchair-floor in that order - all with one flannel, which then goes into a hot wash. Takes about a minute per child.

Having said the above, I would not like someone to start their working day in dirty clothes and I always notice and don't like it if someone does not wash their hands regularly or is not totally 'there' with hygiene. Not being able to cook at all is ridiculous and annoying.

The agency's T&C will absolve them from any responsibility regarding the nanny's suitability - this is always down to you. All they do is facilitate the introduction.

You may well have left it a bit late for the firing, in my view. If she was preggers when she started and has been with you for 5 months, she's not going to get another job now and therefore has nothing to lose by making things difficult if you fire her. So do be very careful.

Don't forget that your nanny is your employee and you do have a duty to be respectful and straight with her, even when she's really annoying you and not performing well in your view.

PS - no-one's cutting you any slack for the fact that you have triplets, which must be exhausting - physically and mentally, regardless of how much help you have. I do hope it all gets sorted for you.

Do you really think that you can "order" a suitable nanny from an agency in the same way as you order groceries?

right
you have never employed a nanny before
but
had college kids come to you as a placement?
while you were there I take it ?

How many nannies did you interview ?
and why did you chose this one?
Did you have trial period ?
and why did not get rid after that ended?

do you children all nap at same time?

Do mind someone ironing while children are crawling around?

RE her clothes she pg and works in long hours job where is she going to get the time to get new clothes.

If I had to look after three babies at the same time, they'd be lucky if they were fed. Perhaps that's why I am not a nanny?

If I was mum to triplets (and survived the pregnancy) I would probably not require my nanny to purée the fruit/veg.

I am a bit of a nutrition freak, but life is too short to spend it all in the kitchen. You can get this stuff at Tesco. Ella has a lovely kitchen.

Could she not argue that the pasta got burnt/laundry wasn't taken out of tumble drier because she was paying attention to the triplets?

Did she not use a timer when cooking? This could have solved one issue.

Re: The pureeing. One suggestion would have been for maybe you/DH to peel fruit/veg & she could do the rest while triplets are sleeping? I appreciate it's not ideal but it would have meant (hopefully) that at least it got done.

The agency I'm afraid would promote your job description & needs to her & they would have told her that your job spec is standard. You & the nanny are their form of income.

as ebb and callaird have both said, an experienced nanny should be able to fulfil basic nursery duties such as cooking, cleaning bedrooms, washing and keeping areas tidy

i hate ironing, tho will do it if have to, but generally the cleaners do it in my jobs :)

and she obv thought she could or she wouldnt have said yes to the job,but she isnt doing it properly and therefore if you have warned her/ sat down and talked about her role etc and hasnt improved then i think you have the right to give her notice

i have skimmed read, so sorry if you have said this, but how old are your triplets? if pureed food, assume 6-12mths - was wondering if you had any other children or why did you have a good nanny before her

2plus1 - I'm not asking you to 'out' the agency you used, but we use one for tutors (I HE my son) and they offer a no quibble alternative if you are not happy with the tutor (but they supply all staff, from housekeepers to drivers) within a certain time (I think it's 6 months).

They also stay in constant touch with both the client and the placement to make sure everyone is happy with what's happening.

I'm happy to PM the details if you would like?

Sorry for being arsy. Trying to get DS into school at the moment and it's proving testing (that's the polite word). I'm on a short fuse.

We're in London.

I'm not questioning the right of the OP to get rid of the nanny if she is not doing what was agreed (and while it's possibly not politically correct, I'd be furious if she didn't mention the PG at the interview but then claimed it was a reason she couldn't look after triplets)

I just think the OP has overly high standards. And refering to your children as trips annoys me.

Maybe you are unclear in you interactions with her. I've not attacked you but I have asked a specific question twice which you can not or will not answer. It's looking a possibility that you are the problem.

Firstly you have many avenues for getting rid without problems as long as its documented. And you have many reasons.

I'd be furious about the attitude. If she wasn't coping and admitted it that would be different but it seems she doesn't care. I'd also be pretty mad about her working without insurance.

The qualifications however I'd take up with the agency. They should have informed you of that. Can you go to them for advice?

I'm going to stick up a bit for the op too... our nanny brings her own dd with her to work (she's the same age as my dd, they're both 2.6) and she has my ds to look after as well (he's 4). Admittedly they're not babies in quite the same way (though I'm not sure how old the OPs triplets are) but toddlers are I think worse at getting in to trouble.

Now my nanny is by no means an absolute star when it comes to tidying up, but she does clean up after the children's tea, either washes up all their plates or puts them in the dishwasher. She cooks pretty well (I do leave loads of things like pasta sauces in the freezer which she uses, but she also cooks home made pizzas, risottos, soups etc) and doesn't burn anything. Her personal appearance is immaculate, better than me most days :o

I do also have a cleaner once a week so I don't expect her to do much beyond a general tidying at the end of the day and sweep the kitchen floor. Dh does all the laundry anyway so it's not an issue, but our nanny could certainly manage it in her time, and if I do have some washing on when she gets in then she happily hangs it out and then gets it back in again for me.

OP I do think if she's struggling with doing everything you ask, you need to have another chat with her. Find out if she's struggling to do it all, or if she's just avoiding it. I must admit my first instinct when it comes to childcare is that I'd prefer a childcare provider to be caring for my children rather than doing housework, which is why we have a cleaner. I would much rather our nanny is taking my children to the park or doing some crafty actitivies than ironing a stack of clothes.

Just to add though- I don't look terribly smart when I'm at work. I don't have the money to keep replacing clothes that become tired looking because I'm crawling on the ground, or that are stained because I've been rolling in the grass or have food colouring on them etc. I also don't iron.
I come to work shOwered, hair up and in fresh clothes each day, but that's as classyas i get :)

I don't think you are asking too much. I could cope with it, though obviously it takes a few weeks to find a routine that works. It sounds like she does childcare, children's laundry and ironing, linens and room. Provide fresh meals and clean up after the kids. Nothing out of the ordinary, and you don't take on a job with small triplets thinking it'll be easy!

She isn't doing her job. You have given her a warning. As far as I know you can still fire someone for not performing their duties whilst pg unless it is the pregnancy itself that is hindering them.
I think you may need to give a written warning now, but its best you check on the legal board or with cab.

Well Im going to stick up for the OP. I'm now a childminder, but have been a nanny before, with over 15 years childcare experience.

I dont think that its unreasonable to ask the nanny to do those tasks, the only thing that would be tricky would be the cooking, but it in reality it doesn't take long to steam some veg, cook pasta and knock up a cheese sauce....the other tasks of clearing up after meals, well that is good hygiene practice isn't it?

Not sure you can complain about stained clothes and unkempt appearance, I was always clean and tidy for work, but looked an utter mess by the end of the day.

And before anyone asks, my first nanny job was 8 week old, sole charge, 60 hours a week triplets ......

I'm a nanny. I have had three sets of twins, separately. If the triplets are in a good routine, then there is no reason why she cannot do nursery duties. With the twins, they would sleep for two hours after lunch, I would spend an hour tidying up and having lunch and a well earned break and then an hour batch cooking for the freezer or ironing. Twice a week, usually Monday and Thursday, I would do nothing for those two hours!

I have had four under 23 months (nanny share) and did all nursery duties. It is part and parcel of our job! It sounds as though she is not fulfilling the contract, you have gone through the disciple procedure, verbal warning, written warning so I think you are within your rights to terminate the contract. She has breached it by not conforming to it.

If she were struggling to fit everything in then she should have spoken to you to see if there is anything you could agree to make her life a bit easier.

I'd love to look after triplets!

I would get rid as you're obviously not happy with her. An 'experienced' nanny should be able and organised enough to cope with triplets and, yes, I would expect them to be able to cook a decent meal and do nursery duties. I assume your house is child friendly so the triplets are safe whilst the nanny cooks? She shouldn't be burning basic food. It shouldn't take much to keep the triplets room/s clean and tidy. I'm assuming the triplets nap during the day so ironing can be done then.

Next time when you check references ask about the nannies cooking skills, organisational skills and personal appearance. ( Assuming you checked references yourself and didn't rely on the agency. ) Leaving poo in the toilet is minging and, as long as you're sure it's not DH / any other visitor then I would ask her politely to clean up after herself.

"I would seriously suggest you give up whatever job is allowing you to pay for a nanny and do it yourself"

maybe the OP needs to work to pay her rent/mortgage??
a nanny is probably cheaper than nursery fees for 3 children