The Curse of Boff strikes again - this nanny has decided after a fortnight in post that petrol is too expensive

My employer gets sent one from nanny tax but just doesn't bother giving it to me. She leaves them all over the house, the cleaner read my hourly rate and asked for a rise.!

Hope you are not my nanny I always forget to do the wageslip. I don't mean to now I do it at work so my poor nanny gets it. However I do wish she would ask for it as I have three in my handbag. Think I will just start posting it to her.

Nick you are like a walking computer!

I know nick all I've ever requested is a simple written payslip showing earnings and deductions but as you say some employers can't seem to get their head around it. I often wonder how they would react if their own employers said "Sorry we can't give you a wageslip; It's too much trouble!" I've given up trying to get them in this job but will take note of your suggestions and the websites/softwear you mention for my next employer.

My last employer used nannypaye because it was cheaper and more efficient than the other company.

Payslips can be simply written out. I've had employers do that in the past. A duplicate book from the local stationers is handy so that a carbon copy of each payslip is kept.

www.payroo.com is an online system which does the the Real Time Information and it is Free for employers with less than 10 employees. Has anyone used it?

HMRC provide Basic PAYE Tools which can be used but it does not print payslips - no problem, Wieser Software have a solution to that (£15). Basic PAYE Tools is not without it's problems, looking at UK Busines Forums but it can be used and is free.

There are other software packages available, such as MoneySoft Payroll Manager which run on your PC rather than being web based. There is an annual cost (£56+Vat).

So no need to use a payroll company, as long as you have some time to do it yourself.

Well when I interviewed nannies there was a couple that were a bit cheeky but then isn't all business like that I work in an industry that you negotiate a wage.

There were also au pairs that had made themselves up to nannies and were offering to work for a very low wage.

My lovely nanny who I chose I am paying less than my cleaner, actually she is on less money than anyone else in my company.

I think the government should do more to help with tax and insurance otherwise people will be tempted to take on the cheap au pair that will work for peanuts with housework thrown in as well.

Childcare is expensive but then a lot of people give up their whole career for their children so even more expensive.

We employ a nanny for too few hours for a payroll company to be worth it. it works out a ridiculous amt per payslip per year. plus I wasn't terrible impressed with the legal advice I was supposed to be paying a premium for...have heard good things about nannypaye though. the other company mentioned on here is pretty much double the price per year.

sunshine: Does your employer think that the payslip needs to be the sealed envelope type thing? That might explain why she thinks she doesn't know how to do them iyswim?

My employer does get tax credits and partially pays me with kiddicare vouchers and I do on my own insistance get a P60 at end of tax year but she says she doesnt know how to produce a payslip? but as she uses the paye cd rom and tax office site to do my tax and national insurance I would have thought it wouldn't be too difficult.

your governmrent site sounds like a great idea Frak and would make things a lot simpler.

Late to this but she must have had another offer (sorry if this has been confirmed in the middle of the thread). In this economy any job is pretty much better than no job, so I can't believe she would have quit over petrol if it wasn't to jump ship to a shorter commute.

In fact that's the answer. Not nanny tax companies. A govt site where employers log in, run it through govt software, payslips are automatically produced and electronically distributed to thé employee, employer's bank account is debited and everyone's happy.

It's not helped by HMRC not knowing their own rules. There are no end of nannies who insist that they've checked it and it's apparently fine or they started doing it 10 years ago and nothing can possibly have changed. I did SE ad hoc work in 2007 and noone at the tax office was even remotely surprised that I registered as an SE nanny.

However now as an employer I wouldn't want to pay an extra £150odd a year to a company to do something I can do myself. Thankfully the country I now live in has a govt site where you do payslips for free, they debit your bank account and if you don't do it via them you don't get the equivalent of tax credits or get to deduct your childcare from your end of year tax bill. Another argument for tax deductible childcare - if you want to save then you have to employ your nanny legally.

Sorry Boffin didn't intend to go off subject and frak didn't mean to get defensive I'm just a bit tired

But my point is that at least if a paye company is involved then by law the employer would have to register. In many of my jobs I haven't even been given payslips, in what other job would that not happen. I loved it when in my last job my employer used nannypaye and it was lovely to have payslips and not have to chase up my employer to make sure everything was above board and declared! I also worked for a couple of jobs where the employers had accountants who dealt with that side of my pay and you don't have to be an internet junkie to know your countries tax laws, It's the employers and employees business to find out what's expected. there's enough about tax fraud in the news. I knew at 16 that I had to pay tax and that my employer had to register for it. In those days we still had cards and and I can remember being sent off to the post office by my employer to buy my national insurance stamp to put on the card each week

I honestly believe that these so called self employed nannies and their employers are tax dodgers who know they are breaking the law. In any case ignorance of the law is no defence.

The nanny example I gave did not involve a friend but a cousin and at the time it caused her a great deal of stress and she was glad the tax office took over and persued her dishonest employer.

Sorry my last post sounded snarky - I don't mean it to be, but sadly it's not people on MN who need converting, it's the people you go to interviews with, the nannies you meet at playgroups who say they're SE etc.

Although there is the odd crackpot saying they're happy to pay CIH on MN they're rare! Or just keep very quiet. Which is another reason IF nannies could be SE it would just beets losing what happens. But they aren't so that's academic really.

The words preaching to the choir come to mine sunshine! I personally do a lot of voluntary work trying to get nannying professionalised, to make gross pay the norm so employers realise they have obligations etc and I know a couple of others on this thread are involved in one of those organisations too.

I can appreciate why on the surface nannies contracting out services could be a positive thing BUT that is not what the law says. Unlike you I think many nannies want to be SE so a) they can claim expenses, b) they can be sure their tax and NI are paid and c) so employer's who don't want to have the hassle of employment will pick them over the next nanny who will do it CIH on the black. Some are doing they best to abide by the law in their own way. I know of several cases like your friend - unemployment, maternity, redundancy, all sorts if entitlements that disappear when an employee isn't declared. In every case I've said they should shop their employers to HMRC and when it's been done its achieved results but too many still won't do it because it would jeopardise the reference. It's only thé ones who have nothing to lose who do which is a crying shame.

Unfortunately Voice don't have enough for nannies to be an effective support, BAPN ate getting there but they're not really big enough yet and too many nannies are still working without insurance so don't get the legal cover there. When I started nannying very few people had heard of nanny insurance - I got laughed at on NJ - then OFSTED made it a requirement and now everyone seems to take it seriously. That's ablyt the only good thing OFSTED ever did.

sunshine: "Maybe someone from the tax office should go into school in the final year and explain about the tax system and the consequences of tax fraud and not paying a NI contribution." certainly a good idea, I do wonder how many nannies/families go SE out of genuine ignorance of the system as opposed snto just playing the system.

Lady: I get that gross in a pt position with sn care of two of the three kids Wish I could get that much, I'd be loaded

What amazes me is the lack of research into the employment status by families and nannies. Both just assume it's something but never look into it really.

It shouldn't be a law that people HAVE to use a nanny paye service, that's ridiculous. You don't need a PHD to work it out yourself. all that does is create a weird protected economic sector in the economy that is not state regulated. PAYE companeis make mistakes too.

I mean a part time nanny.

Whether nannies themselves should be confused, I want to take that back. I think they should know they can't be if they are professional nannies...but it might be hard to stand up to an employer on this one...lone employee, no HR department - it's not easy.

it's no excuse, but I can see how some might get bullied a bit.

I've interviewed a nanny who was asking £10 p/h net for 40 hr week. NO training, no first aid qualification even, limited experience. Lovely girl but: no.

And plenty of nannies who rock up and tell you: "I'm self-employed."

Anyway, I can see why the parents and maybe the nannies are confused about employment status if they are not internet junkies or have friends with experience of it who can advise BUT who do know something about freelance working in other sectors where you can invoice etc. It's easy to see how people become confused by this and don't understand why a 'domestic employee' would have to be different, logically.

Frak I think a lot of the nannies and employers who want to be self employed do it to defraud the tax system. nannies cannot be legally SE so it's obvious they are not in the system. Which is why I said it's dodgy for the employers as they are the ones Mr Tax Inspector will chase up. I Know of a case where a nanny thought her employer had been doing her tax and insurance and they hadn't. The nanny became ill and went to claim benefit and the department for work and pensions ask her why she hadn't any NI contributions for the last 3 years? She told them she had been employed on paye and gave her employers details. Employer tried to tell tax office she hadn't been earning enough to pay tax. Stupid mistake as they had paid nanny by part cheque and it was obvious she should be in the system. Also agency confirmed hours nanny was originally contracted for.

The tax office went through all the employers bank accounts and tax affairs then proceeded to investigate them. They were made to bring all the nannies tax and insurance contributions up to date and they were threatened with prosecution. My friend is no longer working as a nanny as she is a carer for her elderly father but her experience has made me always make sure I am paid in a way I can prove such as straight into my account and that I am always given an end of year P60 and a P45 when I leave. It is one of the reasons I would like it to be law that people employing nannies should have to use a nannypay service.

Well yes, we did have a contract, with a clearly defined notice period; she breached it.

When I challenged her on it (really out of desperation, I already knew I didn't want her looking after my children any more after the attitude she presented) she was completely unrepentant; it was all about her. She even texted me (the day she quit) "can't give your keys back today because I am working" - given she was working in the job she had taken while technically still employed by me and on leave because she couldn't work because my children were potentially contagious I had to sit on my hands for a bit to avoid texting something really unpleasant in response!

I didn't pursue her financially because, since she left mid-month, I didn't pay her at the end of the month (made a difference of a few days pay to her which no doubt she recouped from her new job) and filed her leaving date as the last date she turned up to work.

Anyway, sorry Boff for the hijack - just wanted you to know you are not alone and to warn EVERYONE off crappy nanny Fran!

And if anyone in SW London needs a nanny i can recommend two who are absolutely lovely and brilliant and never let me down and who I am still in touch with and would hire again at a moments notice if we ever went back to London or they ever wanted to relocate to deepest darkest Kent.

And I totally agree tax and NI should be taught in schools. It was certainly mentioned in mine in PSE when we were doing out GCSEs.

sunshine I doubt boff is getting at you for saying you have an amlunt you at least need to earn, and you can ask, but if you don't get what you want and there's nothing else would you still flounce?

In fact most nannies on MN seem to have a grasp on reality. It's the others in the real world which don't. I had an interesting conversation with an agency who said nannies aren't prepared to moderate their expectations to pick up 2 extra days of work when the rare job comes up. I honestly can't believe the naïveté of some people - the jobs just aren't there and they think it's all going to get better.

SE might help because then nannies could set their rates, employees wouldn't be scared off by employing someone else and it would remove a lot of fiscal pressure in terms of sick pay, maternity (although that gets reimbursed holiday doesn't) and redundancy. Seems like many of them want to be anyway....although I don't see why!

verity that is shocking.