Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Unflip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

Unflip

1 2

Original poster

Anyone know the rules on paying friends for childcare?

29 replies

MayaAngelCool · 25/04/2012 13:33

Do you remember that OFSTED fiasco over the two policewomen who were doing a childcare swap? Well I'm now thinking about asking a friend to be available as a standby carer for the occasions when my CM's kids are unwell. I intend to offer to pay my friend in cash or in kind, but I don't know whether this is illegal, or if OFSTED finally relaxed their rules and actually 'allowed' parents to make their own decisions.

Or should I just not give a shit what OFSTED and go ahead and let my lovely, extremely trustworthy friend look after my child?

OP posts:

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

SweetTheSting · 11/05/2012 22:51

Thank you Batman, I didn't know about being able to pay if in own house!

We are very happy with our CM but good to know this could be an option if she is away or something. We can't really return child care favours so I would prefer to pay a friend but have been worried about doing so.

Yay!

maples · 11/05/2012 22:39

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

nannynick · 11/05/2012 22:29

Dickens wrote in Our Mutual Friend: 'Left to he Minded, sir. I keep a Minding-School. I can take only three, on account of the Mangle. But I love children, and Four-pence a week is Four-pence. Come here, Toddles and Poddles.'
Source: Our Mutual Friend, Chapter 16

What date would that have been published - 1864?

Infant Life Protection Bill, 1871 failed to become law. It was even more stringent than our current legislation, as it was care of under 6's for any period of time outside of their own home which would have fallen under regulation.

It may come as no surprise that the WWII was when things started to become more organised. Registered Daily Guardian Scheme, 1941.
Main childminding legislation was in 1948... Nurseries and Child-minders Regulation Act 1948

Enough with the history though... it is possibly a bit odd that some things are regulated and others are not but that is how things are and it has been that way for quite a long time. Back in Dickens' day, daily minding was happening, I would presume as Dickens writes about it in Our Mutual Friend. It probably wasn't regulated in any way but I feel that daily minding would have been seen as being different to baby farming.

Not sure what I am really writing this for... but maybe it's that the state does not make laws like this easily... it took a a while to come about and it would have been events in history that made it happen. We are now stuck with it, though it could have been worse if the 1871 Bill had got through - no 2 hour rule then!

Dozer · 11/05/2012 22:03

The childminding rules may be intended to protect children, but less rigid regulation could achieve that objective without the consequences of reducing the supply and increasing the price of childcare.

By that logic, nannies should be as heavily regulated as CMs and nurseries.

Either the state trusts parents to make decisions about childcare, or it doesn't.

Dozer · 11/05/2012 21:57

Scotland's law sounds no better - who needing childcare only needs 2 hours!

Dozer · 11/05/2012 21:56

The rules are such nanny-state bollocks and help no-one.

Can understand them being concerned about non-payment of tax / benefit fraud etc.

But it is totally inconsistent that childminders are so heavily regulated and that it is illegal to pay a friend to care for a child in their home, when nannies are virtually unregulated and it is seen as a "private arrangement".

Also inconsistent that a CM with one client pays tax as self-employed, whereas nannies almost always have to be taxed as an employee.

maples · 11/05/2012 15:11

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

msrantsalot · 11/05/2012 05:14

law in Scotland is up to 2 hours paid in their home ok, any more than 2 hours per week not allowed. Any hours you like paid in your own home.

Original poster

MayaAngelCool · 26/04/2012 21:48

Good idea! Thanks for that!

OP posts:

nannynick · 26/04/2012 21:44

Don't bother with Ofsted, they don't make the rules. Write to your MP, make your feelings known.

Original poster

MayaAngelCool · 26/04/2012 21:27

Nay bother. I can't be fagged with arguing pointlessly on MN these days. Think it's a sign of age.

OP posts:

HolyCameraConfusionBatman · 26/04/2012 21:19

You're welcome and thanks

Original poster

MayaAngelCool · 26/04/2012 21:16

Yes, nick, I've already said that I understand the child protection element. The law did change, as we all know on this thread, in 2010, to make things more flexible. I think things could be done better still, and maybe one day I'll write to OFSTED with my suggestions and get a politely-worded "piss off" letter in return.

OP posts:

Original poster

MayaAngelCool · 26/04/2012 21:14

Ok, I get ya! I'm sorry for getting a bit shirty with you.

And although I did know I can employ a friend in my home, what I should have said earlier was that I'd feel obliged to pay them at nanny rates since it would limit the way they organised their time. I want my friend to be able to come and go from her home as she pleases, and do her housework/ errands/ whatever. It didn't occur to me to pay her less as you suggested earlier, because I'd feel uncomfortable about taking advantage of a friend in that way.

Anyway I appreciate your help on this thread, thanks loads. Oh, and you have a damn cool name.

OP posts:

nannynick · 26/04/2012 21:09

The legislation about childminding has existed in one form or another since 1948. It is there ultimately to protect children. It can seem a pain at times but the line has to be drawn somewhere between helping out a friend and providing a service.

HolyCameraConfusionBatman · 26/04/2012 21:05

I'm trying to give accurate information as generally that is what people want. I'm not talking solely about your circumstances, just in general you can employ a friend without registration. It wasn't clear from your post that you knew this so I was relaying this information to you! True that people don't include all details in their op, but you can't then blame other people when they misunderstand your exact childcare needs!

Original poster

MayaAngelCool · 26/04/2012 21:01

Yeah, you are being nitpicky. People frequently miss out all the details from their OPs - of course we do, we're human, and this is a web forum, not a court of law! I posted later that care at my home wasn't what I wanted, and your "stating the facts" response (as opposed to saying something like "I see what you mean, you want your child looked after in your friend's home") was therefore...nitpicky. See?

Anyway I've got the information that I need from this thread so thanks a million Batman and others for your help.

OP posts:

HolyCameraConfusionBatman · 26/04/2012 20:41

I'm not being nitpicky, I'm stating the facts. You had a soapboxy rant about how you can't employ friends etc etc, when the fact is you can. The easiest way around the Ofsted rules is to have your friend care for your children in your home. Nowhere in your OP did you say it needs to be at her house.

My advice is still take option 2, disregard Ofsted and do what you want, but for general information purposes if you wanted to legally employ your friend then you can. You don't need to pay her a nanny wage just because she's doing it at your home, the only requirement would be minimum wage (if you wanted to do it legally etc).

Original poster

MayaAngelCool · 26/04/2012 20:34

You are being a bit nitpicky, Batman! What I want is for my friend to be able to do it in her home...otherwise, if I could afford a nanny, I'd just employ a nanny.

OP posts:

HolyCameraConfusionBatman · 26/04/2012 20:29

but you can

legally employ
trusted, responsible friends
for childcare
without registration

HolyCameraConfusionBatman · 26/04/2012 20:19

yes

Original poster

MayaAngelCool · 26/04/2012 20:17

But they'd have to do that in my home, not theirs.

OP posts:

HolyCameraConfusionBatman · 26/04/2012 20:13

'It does irritate me that we're not allowed legally to employ trusted, responsible friends for childcare if they're not '

You can employ them as a nanny, just not a childminder. Can employ anyone you want as a nanny, no registration needed.

Original poster

MayaAngelCool · 26/04/2012 20:07

Brill, thanks for that! I'd never heard of that site.

It does irritate me that we're not allowed legally to employ trusted, responsible friends for childcare if they're not registered. I understand that it's probably driven by the needs for child protection, and of course at risk children need to be safe.

But the fact that you could be prosecuted even when the care is sound? Bloody ridiculous. If they're going to spend all that time and money over legal wrangling, why not spend less time and less money by just inspecting the home and carer to check whether they deem it a fitting setting for a private childcare arrangement? Plenty of parents are caring and intelligent enough to look for good quality care, so why insult our intelligence?

OP posts:

MrAnchovy · 26/04/2012 13:42

Legal source for reference

Unflip

1 2

Swipe left for the next trending thread