Nanny groundrules?

Nannynick - I think the biggest thing that can be done to build trust is experienced nannies being pro-actively aware of likely issues. Like the OP has said she raised planning at interview, and you have raised equally valid reasons it's sometimes best not to plan. But I think, if planning has been raised at interview, a good way to handle it would be either explain that point of view at interview, or to write something in the diary that showed you had a plan to have no plan (e.g. "We will plan some activities next week, once we have a better idea of the weather"). I think that kind of thing really builds trust, especially when the nanny is more experienced at being a nanny than the parent is at being a nanny employer.

I also think it helps to be very upfront and explain why things will be nice for the children. For example, in this situation I think the nanny would have been better to say "I thought it might be nice to take the children bowling. I have a nanny friend who looks after children the same age and I think it would be nice for [name] to have a child of roughly the same age to bowl with". Being pro-active and 'over demonstrating' that the children's needs are front and centre is good for building trust.

As a new nanny, I also think it helps to ease into the idea of socialising with your own nanny friends and their charges - ie. not too frequently at first, and better at activities rather than play dates. As your employer gets to know a nanny, they'll be more confident in the nanny's choices.

Yes sometimes the children don't get on and you meet up more for the nanny benefit.

Yes I suppose she could have mentioned she was meeting friends though.

Holy - I was very lucky, I already knew the only nanny I have (thus far) hired, so I trusted her completely.

However, I think, put bluntly, the concern is not who the children are playing with, it is who the adult is who is with those children. You can interview a nanny and have a settling in period, but fundamentally you don't get the chance to do what most bosses will do in other settings and keep a slightly closer eye on a new employee than a long standing and trusted one. You are basically leaving your children with a (hopefully well vetted) stranger. And the niggling concern is always that your nanny will turn out to be a bad hire and, in fact, when they are going off playing with children you don't know, it is because the nanny wants to spend all day drinking coffee and gossiping with her friends. There are slackers in all jobs, and being a nanny doesn't preclude that. No one wants to feel that their children might be neglected by a poor nanny who is more focused on her own fun than the childrens'.

That's why this comes up as an issue with new nannies, but not so much long standing ones. I have said this before and people always retort with "well, if you don't trust them you shouldn't hire them", but it really isn't that simple. An interview and hire process, no matter how careful, is not 100%, so I think people are naturally cautious until their nanny has settled in. It's also why people feel differently about activities- if you take the children to their well loved playgroup and find some mums/carers to gossip too, great, it's a win/win.

I think the 'stangers in your home' thing is fair enough, but this was at the bowling alley - a public place!

Well I am a nanny and can see where the op is comming from. I think in the first few weeks I would fit in with the mum and then gradually introduce my circle of nanny friends.

To be honest I don't really like strangers in my own home I don't let my fifteen year old bring people home without me meeting them first.

I think the nanny could have mentioned she was meeting friends.

I do not think taking photos is that much help really.

I'm not trying to suggest you're being unreasonable. I really, honestly don't understand what the concern is? This comes up on here fairly often and I always ask 'why? and it never get's answered! What are you worried about? Your children play with some other children you've never met....and....what happens? What is the fear?

If the nanny had taken the children to the park/softplay etc and while there your children start to play with other kids they/you/the nanny don't know, then what? Would you be annoyed that the nanny allowed them to play with strange children...?

I can understand why you would be concerned about the nanny talking the children swimming/on a train/in a car etc. I just do not know what you imagine may happen if your child plays with another 5-year-old you haven't met?!

Is it a fear of losing control rather then a fear of what may actually happen to your DC's?

nannynick is thoughtful and reasoned, as always.

Batman I think the conversation would have gone pretty much as you outlined except with the addition of:

'Okay, well, who are you meeting up with?'. If I didn't feel comfortable with the answer, then I'd say something along the lines of 'sounds like a nice idea, but could we leave that for a few weeks until the DC are more settled with you?'

I would also hope that 'my' nanny wouldn't have mentioned the bowling to the DC until she'd checked it was okay first (this being the first 2 - 3 weeks, after all) so they wouldn't be disappointed because they wouldn't have known it was on the menu.

Texts saying where they're heading if it's anywhere out of the ordinary definitely work. Photos from the trip are lovely too - but not essential as your DC will usually let you know if they've had a good time or not. Just because you know you've hired the best nanny you can possibly find and are confident that they're looking after your DC as well as you can or better, and your head's buried in work, it doesn't mean that you don't have passing thoughts wondering how they're doing, what they're doing, if they're okay, if they're under the wheels of a bus, where they are.

You seem determined to suggest I'm being unreasonable about this, but I really don't think I am. Even if you're convinced you've hired the best person possible to look after your DC, it takes time to build the trust and prove to yourself that your instincts when hiring the nanny were right.

I think we need more parents to comment, as it's not about how us nannies feel about it but more about how parents feel about it. I feel it is about trust and what can be done to help build that trust over the first few months.

What would parents like nannies to do to help build that trust? Are frequent photos, text messages the answer?

'if any big trips were planned or any meet-ups with people I didn't know - just for peace of mind'

but why? Would you be ok with the nanny taking them to the park during her first week? I think there are far more possibilities of danger in the park/on the way to the park than at a playdate with some other children. I can see why you'd want to know about big trips out, but what is lost/gained by not knowing/knowing exactly who your children are playing with?

How would that conversation go?

nanny; Can I take the children bowling?
parent: yes that wold be lovely, they really enjoy bowling
nanny: Fab, some of my nanny friends and their charges will be there as well so they can all play together

then what is your response?

Ok that's fine (you still know nothing about them!), OR
No my children must miss out on bowling because I haven't met these children before OR
Despite the fact that the bowling alley is a public place you need to tell your friends and family members that they are not to go there when my children are there as I haven't met them...

nannynick - sorry, I meant to say: I haven't read your post over again, so sorry if I've forgotten points you raised...

Of course I read it!

Just to be clear - I didn't say I'd have a problem with it, full stop. I said I'd have a problem if a new nanny did this, without mentioning it first.

I think there's a settling in period on both sides with a new nanny, when trust builds up and when both sides work out if the arrangement is working for them. That's what the probation period is for. And before you all jump in, no, I wouldn't expect to wait e.g. 6 months for a nanny to meet up with her friends or family members and their children or charges.

But a new nanny is just that: new. For the first couple of weeks, I'd expect a new nanny to fit in with the things the DC have already been doing - go to their toddler groups / play dates, etc, as well as introduce new stuff.

nannynick I haven't read your post (trying to make lunch in and amongst , so sorry if I haven't answered all your points, but one point I do remember - I wouldn't feel uncomfortable at all (and not sure why I should) if my nanny and I were both invited to the same social event. If anything, I'd think it was nice that we could have a chat in some down-time, rather than the off-to-work / home-from-work handover.

I'm not being extreme about this, and I certainly could never have been accused of being a micro-managing employer (probably could have been accused of the opposite, though ). I just think that a relationship develops over time, and for the first couple of weeks I would want to know, in advance (i.e. on the day would be fine), if any big trips were planned or any meet-ups with people I didn't know - just for peace of mind.

Of course plans change - and what may have seemed like a miserable day may turn out to be gloriously sunny and the perfect chance for a fun picnic in the park with friends. But for the first few weeks I'd expect a nanny to let the parent know what's going on.

And to whoever suggested / implied I wouldn't be able to hang on to my nanny - well, our first was prepared to commute for 3 hours a day to continue nannying for us when we moved (of course that couldn't work long-term), and our second was with us for 3 + years and still nannys for us when she's free during the school holidays.

A lot of the people who replied to the OP were nannies, I just thought she should also hear from a parent who would share her concern in the same circumstance.

PPS - (and then I'm going, honest ) - it does get much easier with time.. as an SAHM mum, you know where your children are at absolutely all times, and what they do / who they do it with is always under your/your partner's control (mainly).. when you no longer have that, it can feel like you've had your arm removed..

I remember feeling totally lost that if someone said "what are your DCs up to", I wouldn't be absolutely sure. It took me a while to get used to, it, but after a while it will become normal and you'll feel far happier (well, I did / do anyway).

PS - I'd also have no issue with 'ad hoc' arrangements.. eg Nanny takes dcs to the shop, meets up with friends and decides to go to a park, bowling, whatever... my children would love that and therefore so would I..

I think the question I'd ask is "did my children enjoy it? Did they like the other children, did they feel comfortable"? (I guess you could find that out from your older child?)

If the answer is "no" - then of course there is a problem.
If it's a "yes", then they've had a good time and I'm sure you're happy with that.

I do agree though, I'd like to be told what the plans are, and who / what / where they are going (for a trip - obv not to the shops or park).

I also agree with the other poster who said she'd rather her nanny socialise with nanny friends rather than school mums - me too! I'd feel very uncomfortable if my nanny was making independant friendships with "my" friends or peers - (different from being "friend-ly", and having a good play date relationship.). Very awkward.

Probably a bit of comms and planning would put your mind at rest.

I'm a childminer and meet with friends a lot with there children. My mum is also a childminer and I meet with her. Even if I didn't chose to go on day trips with my friends and children we would stil socialise with them as we attend the same mother and toddler group so my mindees are friends with my friends children.

i really dont see the problem if the nanny meets up with friends and plays bowling or with a member of family who has children and bowls -either way it is a fun activity for all to share

yes in other jobs ie in an office etc you wouldnt socialise with your family but nannying is so different from other jobs - its on a personal level

culturemulcher - really?? why - my 1st week with my last job i went to the beach and omg met up with nannies and mums and their children -all had fun - i sent pics to mb and db of dc building sandcastles and once home mb said thank you taking them out for a lovely day

obv mb didnt know any of them as my first week and tbh unless a mb/db either works from home, is ill or theres a birthday so may take day off, then the parents arent likely to ever meet the people the nanny socialises with

many a time ive been in sains etc at weekends and a child has called my name ran over to me for a hug and obv the adults they are with havnt a cue who i am -so i say hello and introduce myself

its obv a trust issue with the op - yes its her first nanny but trust her and trust her judgement or you will have an unhappy nanny and she may leave

experienced nannies do not like being micro managed - there is no need

op - sounds like your dc had a nice time playing with other children and thats good for them and good for the nanny to have adult company

Chipping- because, whilst it is understandable that the nanny would want to spend time with other adults, as Audrey mentions, that is in the nature of colleagues and shouldn't be the prime purpose of an activity. For example, meeting up with another nanny who looks after similar aged children who may enjoy playing together. Socialising with your own family is your own personal social life, so unless there is a particular reason why it seems a nice idea for the children and has been agreed in advance, for me it would be out of bounds.

"I would have been very surprised, and not happy, if a new nanny had arranged to meet up with people I didn't know / hadn't heard about in advance"

Why, culturemulcher? Do you think the nanny arranged to go bowling with her crack dealer and fellow addicts?

Nannies often work long hours and I can imagine it would be very isolating for them not to meet up with other adults. Parents of her charges' children won't always be on hand to get together so, just as other employees have colleagues, it seems only right that nannies get to meet up with other nannies. Or even take their charges to meet up with their family's kids now and then.

I'm sure OP's 5 year old enjoyed bowling more because there were other children there rather than just bowling against the nanny and 2 year old sibling.

OP - chat to your nanny (not at the weekend!) and tell her you're new to being a WOHM and having a nanny care for your children and ask her to work with you to help you feel more at ease with your new situation. If she's a good nanny she will understand.

Honest to god some people really should just stay at home and look after their own children. Employ a good nanny and let them get on with their job without micromanaging them! If you micromanage your nannies to this degree you will have more nannies than hot dinners or you will end up with the crap nannies who will agree to anything to secure a job.

Youlllaugh - why on earth shouldn't the children socialise with the nanny's family? It makes no sense? The nanny can meet up with another nanny and her charges but not her cousin and her kids?!

culturemulcher why? What is the concern?

If a new nanny? So is that saying you would be fine with it once the nanny had completed probation Culturemulcher?

Does the OP really want the nanny being friends with mums they know? It can be tricky - what if nanny and the mum both get invited to a social evening event? Though I can see your point that OP would probably be happier with nanny visiting homes that the OP already knew.

FWIW - and sticking my neck out here - I would have been very surprised, and not happy, if a new nanny had arranged to meet up with people I didn't know / hadn't heard about in advance.

Perhaps you could arrange a couple of activities or play dates with your DCs friends that your new nanny could take them along to? Then she'll get to know their friends, their mums will get to know her and then they'll be okay to come to play at your house when you're not there.

If you want to sort out something with her over the weekend, perhaps a quick text would be less intrusive than a phone call?

About going to people's houses? Our nanny suggested it. It was fine for her to go round to people we knew, or who we didn't know but knew about (IYSWIM - people who had been mentioned before and we knew the DD had previously met). When she suggested it it kind of made sense to me - I liked to feel I could sort of visualise where my child/children had spent their time. I think she felt it made it clear that she wasn't just socialising with other nannies for purely her own benefit too - sort of kept things transparent.