Quick question- do I have to pay my CM for her to attend a funeral. Not a family members.

backforgood you sound like my sort of client, thank you

thebody even though my DD is way past school trips, my heart is in my mouth when I hear of this sort of tragedy and think of all the ski trips, coach journeys etc she made. I feel for you, glad that your DD is safe and sad for the others.

I am a childminder and if I can't work I don't get paid whatever the reason. Depends on your contract.

Thank you back for good, yes a wonderful teacher and a great family man was mr rippington.

We all send our kids away on trips but never expect things like this to happen. So so sad.

Allibubles,lovely post,

thebody - so sorry to hear about your dd. My 13 yr old dd was on a coach, travelling through France, on the way back from ski=ing at the same time. My heart went in my mouth. Later, I learned the gentleman that died used to ref many of my niece's football games. It's touched a lot of people that weren't directly involved. I hope the pupils can all find the strength to move on gradually, and that those still suffering physically, heal soon.

Alibubbles That is exactly the same relationship I have had with my CMs (and, over a lot of years, I've used several - retirements, house moves (their and mine) change of schools, etc. never through falling out !). A relation ship with a CM is very different IMO from a relationship with a plumber or builder or carpet fitter or any other self employed people. They are there every day, for years. You build a relationship with them as a person. To my mind, I've always paid either a weekly or monthly amount, and that's the end of it. I think in all the years I've used CMs, I've only ever had to cover their sickness once (an operation when she had a week off). It genuinely wouldn't cross my mind to start deducting 1/2 days pay for something such as a funeral they needed to attend. I'm amazed how many people think that's a normal or reasonable thing to do.

Thanks minder, yes awful, dd is coping fairly well though she was trapped in the coach, her 3 close friends are badly injured and the other is critical so we are praying for her. All had to b cut out, the French were wonderful.

Went to the truly wonderful teachers funeral on Friday, so very sad and unfair, dd knew he was dead as she could see him. She has cuts and bruises w wry where and will have a scar on Her forehead as she went throug her window but she is alive, we are lucky.

I attended the funeral of a fellow childminder recently , all of my families arranged alternative care for the whole day, although I said it would only be 2 hours, they told me to take the day off. None would accept a refund or extra hours.
I also unexpectedly ended up in hospital longer after an op I had arranged during my holiday time, went wrong.They all rallied round for 10 days and would not accept refunds. I didn't put their fees up at the annual review.

I have great clients who value what I do and I value them and the relationship we have, so what goes around comes around. I will always step in to help them, and never charge them either!

Just to put my 2ps worth in,
I invoice 2 of my families a month in advance.

My best friends dad is in hospital at this moment in time, he has cancer of the oesophagus hes had 2 ops in the last 4 days hes 77.
If he should pass away, (things arnt looking too good at the mo) and I attend his funeral, I will pay back or take the hours Ive been unable to mind, off the following months bill.

As some one else said Childminders are self employed, and we all have our owns terms and conditions.
I personally would not call this a sick day.

I think generally with CMs, any time THEY choose/need to be off, you dont pay, any time YOU need/choose to be off, you pay to keep the spot open.

Hope your dd is okay now thebody, and you too. What a terrible experience for you.

Oh and one parent insisted on giving me half pay for the week so I am not charging her for an upcoming holiday.

It's not about lack of compassion! I am a cm and my dd was injured in the recent school coach crash in France. I had an unplanned weeks leave to care for her and a day off for the teachers funeral. My parents were without exception fantastically protective of me and dd. but I have already reimbursed them even though they didn't want or ask me too, it's a question of me as a responsible small business owner wanting to offer a professional service.

It's one thing for parents to offer support but another for a cm to demand payment for a day off.

Mean? Why on earth would it be mean to not want to pay? Mean would be getting huffy about her wanting to take time off for something like this!

My CM would probably have asked if I would mind using those hours up another time rather than her not earning as much that month (I occasionally asked for additional afternoons, or to have my DC a little later than usual).

I was all ready to tell you to stop being so mean (per BackforGood) you don't have to pay her, but if she's generally reliable and good at her job have some compassion and pay her. But, as she's taking the P by telling you you have to pay her, no way!

BackforGood, you're absolutely right of course, the loss of a friend could be harder than losing a distant relative, but IME paid leave, in a "normal" job is only granted for the funeral of a very close relative, spouse/parent/sibling. Aunts don't count.

I agree with Backforgood. Do you like your childminder? Does she do a good job of looking after your child(ren)? Does she take a lot of time off sick or do you feel like she generally takes the piss? Do you know how close she was to the person??

BTW, everyone, it is a childminder's right to charge for holidays/sickness if they so wish. As long as they clearly state this in the contract, and at initial meetings, then there is nothing outrageous about it. Most childminders do charge for both holidays and sick days round here. There are precious few perks in this thankless job.....

OP if it's not a lot of money, and you like and have a good relationship with her, I would pay it, or risk souring the relationship. If she charges for holiday anyway, she will probably just take it as such if you refuse to pay.

What Mrsbigwobblybottom said. I'm AMAZED at the lack of compassion on here! Maybe I've had particularly good CMs over the years, but IME CMs are so rarely off 'sick', if my CM ever felt she needed to go to a funeral, then of course I'd do whatever I could to accommodate her. Docking what I pay her each week or month would never enter my head!

I'm also amazed that people think you can somehow "rank" the closeness of a person by if they are a relative or not. That means, I could be given time off to go to funeral of some elderly Aunt or Uncle who I might not have seen for 2 years, but not to attend the funeral of my best friend. Some people have some strange ideas on here.

The terms "sick leave" and "annual leave", "compassionate leave" - in fact anything with the word "leave" are only appropriate in contracts of service i.e. employment contracts. A childminding contract is a contract for services and the equivalent term is "unavailablility" or "closure".

Since a major review of contract terms, the NCMA now advise childminders not to charge when their service is unavailable in most cases: "If you are suddenly unable to care for the children for any of your own reasons, such
as a bereavement or illness, you should not charge.", although they remain ambivalent on paid holiday (but not Bank Holidays: "Payment can only be charged if you are willing to work the Bank Holiday.").

The meaning of the term "sick leave" has been defined by the courts to mean absence due to incapacity through illness or injury of the individual, and does not include attendance at a funeral or anything related to somebody else (e.g. caring for a sick child).

How much sick leave and holiday leave has she allowed in the contact? If Sick leave is open ended I would be reviewing the contract now! I also don't agree that this comes under sick leave (disagree with paying for sick leave anyway, but as you've agreed to it that's neither here nor there).

TBH something like this would make me a bit about her as a CM.

My CM has never had a day sick so if someone died and she wanted to go to the funeral I would definitely pay her. No question.

But i wouldn't expect her to ask for it or expect it. And it is certainly not a sick day. It's compassionate leave.

if there's nothing in the contract that talks about compassionate leave then you don't have to pay it but if you value her and she doesnt usually take any sick then I would pay her.

I work with another CM, we don't charge when our service is unavailable. Our view is that the parent will have to pay childcare to someone else and it would be unfair to make them pay twice!
We work out holidays etc a year in advance and give these out to parents so if we can all work together the parents don't get charged if they take the same hols as us.

We don't charge when we get sick - fortunately with 2 of us together we can cover each other.

With regard to your situation the funeral is not a sick day. You have two options, one to explain to your CM that you feel this is inappropriate as you have to take a days unpaid leave or pay someone else to cover.
Option two is to come to a compromise and offer to pay half rate.

I would go for option 1 as she is definately not ill so therefore, under the terms of your contract then you don't pay.

I get paid for when I work. I don't charge for my holidays or when I'm ill. CM's are self-employed, I would never expect to be paid for attending a funeral.

I had to attend a funeral in Friday, I took the day off but wouldn't dream of charging parents. I had to have a week off after an emergency situation involving dd. couldn't give notice and all parents were fantastically supportive, so I am now giving each parent one weeks free holiday( not charging them).

I respect them and they respect me, team effort, sad your cm doesn't see how much better her business would be if she worked this way.

Going to a funeral is not being ill so no don't pay her

Most se people don't get paid holidays or sick pay but you agreed to her terms when signing contract

Out of curiosty why did you agree to the above ?

As your contract states you pay her for holidays, I don't understand why she didn't just take a day's holiday for the funeral.

There is no set rule as to what she should/shouldn't charge for, each cm
is different but i think she's taking the piss a bit charging for her sickness and to go to this funeral.